kcdusk

OK. While quoting a Mirage 2000 in my AAR, it seems i was using Mirage IIIEA stats taken from Sth Atlantic War. Very different aircraft, but this likely explains the many errors i appear to have made. Depending on how you look at it i either; 1) made one mistake by labelling the IIIEA and 2000, or 2) i got all my calcs wrong. While i made mistake 1 above, the discussion about jammers and decoys working on some missiles and not others has been great. As soon as i read that i thought "yeahhhh". My second thought was "but how do i (a non techno-file) know which ECM affects each missile when i dont know what sort of seeker each missile even has?". But chapter 5.0 probably covers what sort of missile each is (for example terms like IRH, SALH etc) probably will tell me what type of seeker a missile is. So maybe i should be able to account for this correctly in future. Great pickup. 6.7.1 and 6.2.4 noted. Also 6.7 last paragraph is interesting "ECM actions must be ordered in plotting stage". Using engagement turns (30 seconds) for ATA combat, the "move" action comes before "fire" options, meaning an aircraft has to "fire chafe" for instance before knowing if a missile has been fired (or if the range is long enough that the defending plane has time to see it coming. If a dogfight situation exists, after the order of fire is determined for those able to fire, i guess the defending aircraft can choose an "ECM" action before the attacking aircraft can fire and "to hit" chances calculated. But since "ECM's" are not limited in number like AtA missiles may be, maybe its best to assume the defending aircraft always chooses ECM when fired on even if its not "called". Only if the aircraft is attacked "by surprise" would ECM not count.

Wow. Thanks for the replies. I'll try and get my thoughts out there in a day or two. Once i've had some time to go through stuff.

4.1.

One of the purposes of this scenario was to have a submarine travelling at something faster than "crawl" speed, to see if it would be detected or not. I chose a T56 ASW ship because being a ASW type, i thought it might have a better chance to detect the sub. To make the submarine work (have to speed up) i placed it 20.0nm behind the T56 and had it chase down and get a visual (not just a sonar detection). Somewhere in the North Atlantic. Sea state 4. A french made T56 ASW patrol boat is steaming home. On board her sonars had picked up some new secret underwater sounds likely generated by an unknown nationalities new submarine. Its believed to be the first time the sound has been recorded. Using the hard copy tape, they (whomever "they" are) may be able to decipher and program their own sonars to pick up the sound again because they will know what they are looking for. It could be a profitable secret to sell on the open market. At intermediate depth I an LA Class submarine is plowing through the water at 20kts. Its mission is to close the gap on the T56 and monitor. Then wait for orders. Thats all she knows, its the usual story of "hurry up and wait". When the chase started the range is 20.0nm. The T56 is travelling at 12kts and the LA Class is at 20kts. The sub is catching the T56 at the rate of 8kts or 4.0nm each 30 minutes. Detection situation T56 ASW speed 12kts Active sonar 3.8nm and chance to detect her shadow, the LA class sub. 75% 0.8nm 50 2.1 25 2.9 LA class Submarine @ intermeadiate depth I and 20kts passive 3.8nm hull mounted sonars ability to detect the T56. 75% 1.5nm 50 4.2 25 5.7 Despite using a passive sonar, the LA Class has a better chance of detecting the ASW vessel T56 using its active sonar, mainly due to the LC Class's anechoic coating halving detection range otherwise chances would be even. Start of "the Chase" 0:00:0 range 20nm Plot T56 using homemade random movement table: no change (random movement table explained below) Range reduces to 16nm Detection not possible due to range 0:30:0 Plot T56 using homemade random movement table: no change Range reduces to 12nm Detection not possible due to range 1:00:0 Plot T56 using homemade random movement table: no change Range reduces to 8.0nm Detection not possible due to range 1:03:0 change to tactical turns due to detection ranges getting close. Plot T56 using homemade random movement table: no change Range reduces to 11.5nm Detection not possible due to range 1:06:0 Plot T56 using homemade random movement table: no change Range reduces to 11.0nm Detection not possible due to range 1:09:0 Plot T56 using homemade random movement table: no change Range reduces to 10.5nm Detection not possible due to range 6 more rolls made in quick succession to speeden up the game - the T56 does not change its movement. Range closes to 5.5nm Detection possible for the LA @ 25%. No result though. 1:15:0 Plot T56 using homemade random movement table: no change Range reduces to 5.0nm Detection possible for the LA @ 25%. No result. 1:18:0 Plot T56 using homemade random movement table: no change Range reduces to 4.5nm Detection possible for the LA @ 50%. And the passive sonar detects! Classification is 10% (base) + 20% (active sonar of T56) +5% (T56 speed) = 35% and the roll is 40! Close but no cigar. But the sub can determine its a French ship and is therefore their likely contact they need to shadow. (4.3.3) maintaining contact adds 15% to the detection roll. The LA sub Captain decides to draw within 4.0nm where there is a 65% chance of detection (50% + 15% for contact). This also means his sub is not detectable currently by the T56. A good distance to shadow from. 1:21:0 Plot T56 using homemade random movement table: no change Range reduces to 4.0nm Detection possible for the LA @ 65% is maintained. 1:24:0 Plot T56 movement: no change LA Class reduces speed to 12 kts now that they are at the required 4.0nm and will try and surface so i can use the periscope depth rules and try for an eyeball at the T56. This may change the detection possibility. Mmm, just came across cavitation possibilities but it looks like active sonars dont have a cavitation modifier. Submarine moves to periscope depth. Detection roll for LA Class @ 65% is maintained. Detection roll for T56 is unchanged and therefore not possible. Change to engagement turns (30 seconds) to use periscope. 1:24:5 1st move no change in speed thereby risking "Kelvin Wake" per (3.2.1.2). 1st fire: nothing Detect: sonar @ 65% is maintained. Visual sighting (4.5.1) says visual range from perriscope to small target is 6.0nm. The sub eyeballs the T56 and tries to identify the target (4.5.8) and is able to determine the type of ship as a T56. As per 4.5.4 there is a 20% chance the T56 see's the periscope and ... (die roll) they dont. 1:25:0 No change Back to tactical turns (3 minute) 1:28:0 T56 and there is a movement change (finally! I will explain my random table at the end). Speed increases (oh!) 1kt to 13kts (hardly worth the effort). But wait, theres more, direction change and the T56 is doubling back! Now we get interesting. I should have been writing down my Subs plot information before determining the T56 to accurately show the order of things. For instance, its no good me seeing the result of the random movement roll and then plotting sub movement after seeing the results, thats not how i have done it. I plot my subs movement and then i roll on the random movement table (your interested in this table, arent you? I've mentioned it enough ...!). LA Sub movement is unchanged because i plotted before knowing the T56's change of direction. Distance closes rapidly to 2.75nm as the sub is taken off guard and the T56 is now moving TOWARDS the sub. The sub cannot fire yet, but having made positive ID it is ordered to fire if a 1 is rolled on a D6 per tactical turn (i just made another random rule up). Rolling D6 now for OK to fire ... and a 1 is rolled! I was looking forward to seeing if the T56 could detect the sub and then changing my subs plotted movement to go all stealthy but now the orders through i can fire on her. Turn after turn of nothing happening and now its all happening at once. This homemade random table thingy is really working for me. The LA sub didnt plan any fire, so it cannot fire yet. Detection LA sub maintains sonar contact. T56 is now within range to try for the first time. It has a 25% chance and fails. Reaction fire ... let me consult the books ... Page 2-7 says i can fire homing torpedoes this phase but they do not move yet and ROF is halved, so i can only fire 1 this time. Time for some retrospective gaming. Before i can fire i need a TMA (6.1.2). This is something the sub likely would have done as a matter of normal business but i wasnt aware of it so i will make the rolls that should have been made now. I think its fair to say i would have got 2 x TMA rolls. Range was 4.0nm at 1:18:0 and TMA roll says ... 81, not even BOL. Second roll at 1:21:0 and TMA roll is 20 which equals a good TMA (the best there is). Haha "if target changes course (as it has before i got the fire order) i need to re-establish the TMA so i will roll again for the 1:28:0 TMA and 87 which is enough for a "fair" solution. Torpedo 1 is fired but does not move. Moving to engagement turns 1:18:5 1st movement for the LA. I wonder if i speed up to whiz past the T56 or at least close to him i am too close for him to fire at me (what if i whiz into an explosion if my Mk48 torpedo hits)? Or do i slow down/stop so i can fire from range? Quickly, i'm a sub commander, i dont have time to do the math!!! A torpedo is already in the water and is a chance to hit. The LA Class sub chooses to turn off 90 degrees and hope to loose itself again before sneaking up on the T56 and getting a good target solution before firing. The sub has time to engage later, why rush it? 1st movement and the LA dives at 12kts from snorkling depth to intermeadiate 1. T56 continues at 13kts. Range between ships is 2.6nm. What about the torpedo? Its at 2.4nm and closing. The to hit roll doesnt occur until the T56 and torp "meet". Detection phase and the T56's chance to detect the torpedo (and hence take evasive action) is unchanged becase i cant see anywhere that a fired topredo changes the detection possibility (only affects passive chance). So 50% to detect sub (89 so no) and torpedo (44 - yes). T56 picks up the torpedo but cannot classify it. Given the speed (55kts) of the contact they could assume its a torpedo. 1:21:5 Sub continues at 12kts and drops to Intermeadiate IV depth. T56 having picked up the torpedo will do a 180 turn again and try to outrun/head for home, increasing speed to 32kts. LA Class now 4.5nm from T56. Torpedo closes to 0.5nm. LA Class detection roll 25+15% is a 2 so maintains detection. T56 chance to detect Sub is 0 since it is travelling at 32 kts and is effectively blind. 1:24:5 LA class plots to continue the chase and directs itself at the fleeing T56. Speed maintained at 12kts. T56 fleeing. Torpedo following and will catch up this turn. Movement happens and the torp catchs the T56 so lets work this out. Page 6-28 for homing torpedoes table and the T56 doesnt have any ACM, but the table only goes as low as 1st G. Am i missing something? I will use 1st Gen anyway so homeing torpedo has 75% chance to hit before being modified by TMA. 6.5.2.3 gives TMA mods to the attack. I assume the range is taken from when the torpedo was fired? So the math is 75% for 3rd Gen torpedo and 0.8 for a fair solution means to hit chance is 60% To hit roll is a 5. The T56 is hit. This is turning into a mega post and i already have a list of other things to cover, so i will move straight to damage on the T56. The Mk 48 torpedo does 75 damage points to the T56 which has a total of 101 before it sinks. The T56 is limited to 16kts due to lose of damage points. Critical hits 75/(101-75) = 2.88 or many many critical hits. Without extrapolating the table on page 7-2 lets say 10 crits. Flooding Eng'g Eng'g Flood Eng Sonar Flood Flood Sonar Rudder. Lets do the flooding first. 4 flooding rolls see's 2 minor, a major and a sever flooding result. Minor = 2% of points lost per 30 minutes. This is doubled for 2 results i guess. Major = 4% of points lost and speed reduced to 15kts. Sever = loose 6% damage points. Adding up the %s 6+4+2+2=14% so not quite the 15% necessary for a capsize result (7.3.2.7). Eng'g rolls. Speed reduced to 0kts and minor fire in enginearing compartment. Sonar out of order. Rudder damage. Thats a lot of damage. If left to fend for itself the T56 is going to have difficulty over the next 30 minutes just to stay afloat due to the extensive flooding. In my mind the LA class would turn on the T56 and sink her outright (newspaper reports mystery loss of T56 at sea). But for the sake of the game i want to see how long she will last if the LA Class moves off. 1:54:5 (or 30 minutes later) Extra damage points lost via flooding. 101 damage points of the T56 x 14% = 14 so damage points were 101 - 75 (torp) - 14 (flooding) = 12 left and in the next 30 minutes it will sink unless all flooding is contained. In any case, flooding points will be > 15% of total in the next 30 minutes and she will capsize. The T56 is toast and i finished up the engagement here. Things that have occurred to me in hindsight 1) It was good to go to periscope depth and use the visual sighting rules. 2) The LA Class could have operated better tactically by diving below the thermaline layer, moving faster, then coming back up to locate the ship. 3) Is this type of AAR too long? Is the turn-by-turn nature of it too dry? Or is referencing some of the rules useful even??? 4) Cavitation modifiers only affect passive sonar detections, not active. 5) 6.5.1 restrictions on torpedoes ... should log what torpedoes are loading in each tube. It may matter one day. I didnt do this. When the T56 did 180 degree turns i should have checked for speed/turning distance stuff. I didnt, i had it turn on a dime. My solo random homemade movement table. I wanted a way of plotting my own movements first without knowing what the opposition craft movements would be. So i came up with random table. I plot my own crafts movements first, then roll to see what opposition craft will do before playing out the results. Step 1 Roll D20 to determine starting speed 1 = D8kts 2-3 = 25+D12 kts 4-7= 20+D6kts 8-12= 8+D6kts 13-20 = 14+D6kts Step 2 There is a chance each turn that the craft will "change" its plot. 15% chance intermediate turn 6% chance in a tactical turn 2% chance per engagement turn. If there is a change, roll D8 for what has changed on the list below. 1 Clear baffles. Does a 180 degree turn. Will resume original course when a 1 is rolled on a D6. D6 rolled each 3 minutes. 2 All stop (starts again 1 in 6/3 min turns) 3 Direction change (D8 * 45 degrees) 4 Speed & depth change 5 Speed, depth and direction change 6 Surface (radio, visual check) - only applies to subs 7 If craft has a towed sonar out, it brings it back in (and if the towed array is in then it puts it out) 8 .... um i'm looking for another action that could take place I have a table to roll on for depths similar to the speed table. Anyway, using the info above you may be able to work out how the T56 behaved and why. In this case it provided a good scenario.

The highest rolling F-15 gets to fire on the Mirage first. A sidewinder is fired. 6.5ata less 1.5 for 3rd generation counter measures, no decoys are carried. This leaves an attack of 4.0 or 70% to hit (yikes!). The Mirage paying the price for not carrying decoys. The to kill die roll is .... 37 - he shots he scores!!! The Mirage is shot down and its game over. To continue with the example to see how the Mirage would have faired. Mirage fires a Magic2 air to air missile. It is 3rd generation all-aspect capable. The ata of 5.5 is recued by 1.5 for the F-15s 3rd generation ECM and another 1.5 for decoys, leaving 2.5 or 55% of downing the F-15. The die roll is .... 57, a miss! Without the decoys on the F-15 (which the MIrage lacked) this would have been a kill for the Mirage. The second F-15 still has the opportunity to fire assuming all misses up to now and the chance to hit is the same as the first F-15, 70%. Die roll is ... 8. Two things stood out during the dogfight portion of this AAR. 1) having ECM and decoys can significantly improve an aircrafts survivability. 2) the ata atk # of an ATA missile is important. This probably isn't news to anybody. As is the generational battle between ECM and missiles. In this example the Mirage had the higher ata of the fighters (4.5 verse 4.0) which gave it the best chance of being in a position to shoot and also the best chance of firing first. However when missiles were fired, the F-15 had the better chance of hitting (due to better missile technology and better defensive countermeasures).

My copy of Sth Atlantic war is here ... first reading of it has been great. Really looking forward to getting into it. The scenarios look good. Nice, small, bite size ones. (Thinking to self) i wonder if i could play the scenarios of SAW in order, and write up AAR for all of them ...

6.3.3..3.2 says the HIGHEST successful position roll goes first (huh?). In this case F-15B has the highest roll so he gets to go first, then the Mirage and finally F-15A. This doesnt make sense to me. The attack position formula and die roll simulates how quickly/easily a plane can manouver into a firing position. In my mind F-15B only just scraped in his roll (needed less than 55 and rolled a 53) so i though he would be the last to fire. The mirage rolled way under what he needed so i thought he would fire first. Anyone want to weigh in on this one? I've thought about this some more and maybe i can see some reasoning in it. HIGHEST roll goes first would mean the plane with the higher chance of success can afford to roll a number higher than the lower % craft and still be successful. So i feel better about this rule now (somewhere out there i'm sure L Bond is feeling better knowing i agree with him!) The Mirages dropping altitude to very low might have worked if the F-15s didnt have LD/SD radars which can see up to two altitudes lower. I think many aircraft radars can only "look up" but i will look into this more. So by being low or lower the Mirages had hte right tactics. Results of dogfight may be up in a day or two.

Is there GCS info anywhere for units other than those in South Atlantic War?

Whats the most capable USA naval ship? Bit of a general question i know. I'm trying to identify a good all rounder. Back when i had 2nd Fleet i thought Ticonderoga and Spruance class's were good. Oh, and what was the name of the USA ship that had "the big land guns" on it? 152mm or something ... sorry i am short on details it has been a while since i owned 2nd fleet (was it missouri??). Are there stats for the B-2 stealth bomber anywhere?

0:00:0 Range 70.0nm 2x Mirages flying at Low altitude crusing at 516kts pick up 2x F-15's flying CAP (Medium altitude) at a range of 70.0 nm on their radar. Radar LOS is 135nm and detection is automatic due to intermeadiate turns. The F-15's radar does not have a chance to detect the smaller Mirage until the range is 25.0nm. 0:04:0 Range 30.0nm 4 minutes later the range has decreased to 30.0nm and the Mirages drop further to Very Low altitude (approx 30 meters) and are literally skimming the ground (wanting to avoid being picked up at all by the F-15's). Each engagement turn a roll must be made against the "crash" table on page 3-8. The chance of a crash is 5% for each and in each 30 second turn the planes travel 2.15nm. 0:05:0 Range 26.0nm Both Mirages have passed 2 crash rolls each. The mirages are about to break the 25nm range barrier, which means the F-15's now have a chance to detect the intruders. 0:05:0 Range 24.0nm Both Mirages pass crash rolls. F-15's have a 60% chance of detecting the Mirage. There are a few big points coming up here. A) Each F-15 has a 60% chance of detecting each Mirage. So thats 4 rolls, and any under 60% results in a detection. Its worth assigning rolls by specific aircraft against specific opponants so that if 2 succesful detections occur you know if they were both against the same aircraft (so one is picked up while the other isnt) or if the rolls are against different craft then both are picked up. The Mirages dropped to Very low altitude to try and delay being detected. But working it through now i found the lower range didnt impact on the F-15's chances! Radar detection range is based on aircraft size and the radar LOS table. Plane size's didnt change, and the altitudes in play meant the radar range is less than the radar LOS so it never came into play. I also discovered the Mirages can only fly at very low altitude if visability is 25% + (3.3.4.2). The result of the detection rolls had each F-15 detecting one Mirage each, and each F-15 detecting a different Mirage. I wonder if the F-15s know they have detected 1 each of the 2 planes? Or if they think they have picked up the same target? (anybody?). 0:05:5 1st Move = Mirages climb a level to Low altitude (no use taking a crash risk if there is no benefit). Range 23.0nm Detect = F-15A picking up both Mirages (i guess they know they have 2 opponants now). F-15B still hasnt picked up Mirage A but has Mirage B on radar. The Mirages do not know if they have been detected yet because RWR only pick up attack radars (4.3). 2nd move = Range closes to 22.0nm Fast forward 0:11:0 Range 11.0nm 1st move = 10.0nm (which brings the F-15 just within range of its sidewinder) 1st fire = (6.3.3.2) Missile combat. F-15A fires at MirageA with an allaspect missile. Detection = due to the firing of a missile, the Mirages know the game (or at least surprise is up). 2nd Move = Range 9.0nm for the planes. Missile moves off at 1434kts and closes to 4.0nm (!) 0:11:5 1st move = missile impact (to be calculated soon) Plane range is 8.0nm. 1st fire = missile impact to be calculated. ATA of missile is 6.5 verse 4.0 = +2.5 before modifiers or 55% chance of a hit. Modifiers will include +1 to defender due to hight mods, +1.5 to defender due to ECM. After modifiers the result is 0 or 30% chance of a hit. Roll is ... a hit (and kill). At this point i wanted to try the dog fight rules so i moved the game forward so that the 3 remaining planes are within 5.0nm and at the same altitude and dog fighting ensures. The Mirage could choose to flee, but since its ATA of 4.5 is higher than the F-15s ATA of 4.0 he decides to take both of them on (courageous decision, minister!). Attack position formula (6.3.3.3.1) F-15A (6+4-4.5)*10% = 55% to be in an "attacking" position. F-15B (6+4-4.5)*10% = 55% Mirage (6+4.5-4.0)*.1= 65% Die rolls are 13, 53, 14. So each aircraft is in a position to attack or fire ATA missile. Who goes first? 6.3.3..3.2 says the HIGHEST successful position roll goes first (huh?). In this case F-15B has the highest roll so he gets to go first, then the Mirage and finally F-15A. This doesnt make sense to me. The attack position formula and die roll simulates how quickly/easily a plane can manouver into a firing position. In my mind F-15B only just scraped in his roll (needed less than 55 and rolled a 53) so i though he would be the last to fire. The mirage rolled way under what he needed so i thought he would fire first. Anyone want to weigh in on this one? Time out. More to follow ...

You should use pen and paper to get a taste of the real thing :-)

so are you firing 2 torpedoes? or more?

Let me chase the night question up in my rules when i get home. VFR?

So Mk67 is a tube and Mk 48 is the torpedo? Okayyyyyy.

ANW?

I dont have chinese sub data, so i looked up NATO v Russian. LA Class subs use Mk 67 533mm TT - but i cannot find the torpedo stats in the data annex??? Anyway, it looks like other US torpedoes do about 150 dam points to ships. The Kiev aircraft carrier has 644 points of damage. If a torp hit the Kiev (doing 150 pts of damage) her speed would be reduced from 32kts to 24kts (possibly affecting aircraft take off ability). CH wise the calc is based on 0.3 damage ratio so on a D6 roll an average roll of 3 or 4 would see 1 or 2 CH's. Each CH has a 40% chance of flooding a ship. So a single torpedo would cause some concern to an aircraft carrier. A second hit to the Kiev would see her speed drop to 16kts and probably another 3 or 4 rolls on the CH table (where almost anything can happen, most likely flooding or further speed reduction). So 2 hits would give the Kiev signifigant problems. If a sub did get in position to fire against an aircraft carrier, would it fire 1, 2 or more (8!) torpedoes? Reading data annexs again it looks like most subs can only fire 2 torpedoes at once so i guess a sub couldnt fire more than 2 before fleeing or needing to take evasive action?

In my Harpoon 4.1 data annexes i cannot find Mk67 533mm TT torpedoes. The Los Angels subs have them listed as an armament, but i cannot find the data on them under Annex F torpedoes. Any suggestions?

Hmmm. I'm going to hit the books and see how much damage torpedoes could do. I only have H4.1 annexs so i will be looking at NATA v RUSSIA data but it should still give me an idea. And it sounds like "critial hit" rolls will also hurt, even if ships are not sunk due to loss of damage points.

Yeah, i thought medium was too low an altitude for the B52s also. I cant remember my reasoning but i will get the write up out and see what i was thinking. The air crews had a fully detailed plan of the airfield (i assumed some team on the ground had recc'ed it out). There were no "lasers" or infra red though. I just assumed the incoming F15s knew where the SAM was and fired to hit it - i'm wondering now if i have done this right? How does a F15 flying in "see" a small target??? Its not like they would have allot of time. I am not sure how to determine if “cuts” have occurred as per 6.3.5.3.2. I may need to check Annex G5. - i will do this today. All in all this was a pretty simple scenario because in the end there was no opposition. But it gave me a chance to work the bombing tables. I hope to rachet up the difficulty very soon.

My initial idea was to see the effect of various different units carrying out an attack against an airfield. In my mind I viewed the airfield as an isolated not-well equipped one somewhere in Africa (think the book/movie “Wild Geese”). Then I decided that the airfield consisted of a few different things, and I planned to have each of my attack craft deal with different layers of the airfield. So I rolled what I wanted to do up into a single planned attack against the same airfield in this AAR. I’ve drawn up a map of an airfield on graph paper. Each square is 50 yards. There is a runway 2km long, single radar (single square) control tower (single square), 2 x hardened aircraft shelters 100 x 150 yards) a maintenance shed 200 feet square, 3x 50 yard square magazine buildings, 2 x AAA units (20mm boffers) a Crotale SAM unit and a parked up APC. The Page 6-18 “Miss Magnitude Table” is calculated in yards so that’s why my map unit of measure ended up being yards. I decided the first thing to be dealt with was the first layer of the airfield, specifically the SAM and 3xAA boffors. Two F-15’s raced in at low altitude and fired 2 AGM-65’s each from a range of 12 miles. 4x 3rd generation missiles roared in to attack the very small targets. Using Aircraft Bombing Tables at 6-12 each missile had a 70% chance to hit and destroy. Each of the 4 missiles found their targets before any of them could return fire themselves (Crotale SAM had the longest range of 5.5nm but by my calcs didn’t have enough time to fire between picking up the incoming AGS and the fire order). 2 of the 4 missiles were fired against the Crotale SAM because that was seen as the largest threat. And firing two was some insurance in case of a miss. Next a B-52 bomber howled over at medium altitude dropping 51 x 750kg bombs against the runway (medium target size per 6.3.5.3.2). This works out to be 8 sticks of 6 individual bombs, and a final stick of 3. Using the same Aircraft Bombing Tables at 6-12 the chance to hit was 5% (computing guidance at medium altitude) plus 8% (for the 8 sticks) giving 13%. Referencing the 13% against stick size of 6 on page 6-14 shows theres a 57% chance of 1 bomb finding the target, 18% for 2 bombs and 3% for 1 bomb to hit the airfield. Because 8 of these sticks were dropped, my understanding is I can roll 8 times using these numbers. Rolls of 90, 80, 55 (1 hit), 12 (2 hits) and 30 (1 hit) means that 4 bombs so far have hit the runway. I am not sure how to determine if “cuts” have occurred as per 6.3.5.3.2. I may need to check Annex G5. Finally, the B-52 also had a final stick of 3 bombs to drop however all missed. Despite not knowing the result of the cuts to the runway, with the AA gear destroyed 2x Apache attack helicopters came in to rake what was left of the airfield. The choppers couldn’t do much against the runway itself regardless of the result of the B-52, so they will confine their attacks to destroying the radar which is seen as more important than the control tower. Destroying the control tower halves landing and take off rates. But destroying the radar halves the landing rate only but there are no landings possible at all if visibility is down to 1.0nm (so in my mind no landings at night). I have not played out the Apache attacks yet. But I am pretty sure they will use the bottom right hand side details on page 6-12 of the Aircraft Bombing Tables. They will try and take out the radar and magazines. I also need to finish the B-52 bombing run using 6.3.5.2 misses against land targets to see where the B-52 misses landed on my graph pad map. Perhaps some other targets will be hit. This could change the targets of the attack choppers (and finally my map in yards will be useful!). Going forward, the next time I do something similar to this I would give the airfield a better radar than the bog standard one it had, to ensure it does pick up the incoming aircraft and I can play through the rules of a SAM verse F-15 or similar. And maybe make sure one AA gun remains unaffected to see how it deals with aircraft also. Sorry for so many rules references but I do so because I am still new to the rules and maybe someone will pick me up on something. Or maybe another newbie will come along and they can see how or why I am doing what I have done.

i can see a sub being undetected and launching an attack on a carrier (assuming it can breach its barrier defences). But does a sub have enough firepower to do significant damage to an ACC?

Anyone doing anything paper rules wise? I'm about to start my AAR for a bombing run over an airport. & I just ordered South Atlantic War (falklands). PS: i'm loving this "posts appear immeadiatly" thing. Congrats to mods.

I have just placed my order for SAW based on this quote. No pressure though!!! :-)

thanks tony. I was worried about the data annexs perhaps not being in 4.1 standard and not being able to use them with the 4.1 rules.

South Atlantic War is version 4.0. Is it compatible with H4.1?