kcdusk

I am playing H4.1 with pen and paper only. Its part of why, each turn, i try and list distance between contacts. I'm not graphing/moving minatures. This is working well for me while hte encounters are small. Even the examples in the book kinda use this, with only a few pics that show relative positions in the examples. (gulp!) i didnt realise the GBU-28 Paveway III was "Deep Throat". I guess i took my biggest hammer to the grape eh? Work calls ...

Hypothetical scenario of a Russian Tarantul making a getaway out of a no fire zone. F-15 is scrambled to intercept & engage. This was a random encounter I put together to use the aircraft movement rules for the first time, compare radars of plane v ship and then see how the F-15 (one of my favourite aircraft, along with the Tornado) goes about attacking a target. This is my second time using H4.1 rules. The Boat started at a range of 100nm miles moving east at 20 kts. The F-15 had to take off and chase it down from the West. I figured this would give me a chance to see the F-15 accelerate, gain altitude, use movement and detection in tactical turns and see how long it took in game time to play out. The F-15 accelerated from 0kts at 0.1x2.0 (loaded aircraft)x493kts (probably should have used afterburner speed rather than F-15 cruising speed) = 100 kts per hour in the first 15 second and up to 200 kts at the end of the 30 second game turn. The F-15 accelerated up to 400kts at the end of the next 30 second turn and climbed to 2000m. Once at its cruising speed of 493 kts the F-15 settled on an altitude of 5000m (it just seemed a nice height). This equated to medium altitude. The boat continued to run away at 20kts. After 6 minutes the range between the two units was 71nm, and I checked detection ranges for the first time. The boat didn’t have ESM, so that was easy. The F-15 used its ESM and was easily within range and had a 90% chance of detecting the boats radar, which it did. The successful ESM meant the F-15 had a range, direction (bearing) (rule 4.2.2.3) and it knew the radar type of the boat. Radar LOS from the F-15 to the small boat was 106nm. Oddly, working from the boat back to the F-15 gave a range of 96nm ( I assumed the range going the other way would be the same, oh well). But the F-15 radar range to a small target is 25nm so at this point the F-15 cannot see the boat on its radar. Due to the F-15 having LD/SD capability it can look down 2 altitudes and “see” a target on the water from its medium altitude. At the 12.00 minute mark the F-15 had closed to within 21.7nm so I took the game “backwards” 30 seconds. This meant the range was 23.8nm, which was within the 25nm range of the F-15 radar. Having picked the small boat up, the F-15 decelerated by 20% of its max speed to 394kts (3.3.2.1). There was a 60% chance of picking the boat up on radar in the engagement turn (or 90% in the tactical turn). The F-15 carried a (single?) GBU-28 guided missile, which has a range of 5.0nm. I considered having the F-15 do a “flyover” (permission to buzz the tower?) and visually sight the boat, but figured knowing the radar type would identify nationality of boat it had picked up on its radar. At the 18 minute mark the range was down to 3.8nm and the F-15 fired. I prepared for all sorts of complicated maths, only to find all I had to do was compare 3G missile v 3G ECM on table 6-5 and I found I had an 85% chance of hitting. What was the boat doing during all of this? Well the boats radar, as far as I could tell, was type SS so it could only “see” contacts up to low altitude, and the F-15 was above this so went undetected. And without ESM the boat didn’t know there was a radar operating in the area. So as far as I can tell the boat is unaware of the approaching doom from above. I should have done the flyover to try the “visual sighting rules” and allow the boat to use its 76mm but ran out of time at work. Even without the flyover, I considered having the boats 76mm gun try and shoot the inbound missile down just to see how those rules worked, but ran out of time. I rolled the dice (< 85%) and the ship took a hit (61 damage points). I ruled the boat didn’t get a chance to try and engage the missile because it couldn’t see the F-15. Maybe when the missile got closer and below medium height the boats radar would have picked it up but by then, given the speed of the missile, I could see it impacting without the boat having time to react. I was looking forward to working out damage and critical hits because I didn’t do that in my last AAR (sub v sub). But the Tarantul only had 27 hit points and the missile inflicted 61 damage points so the show was all over. Any comments or discussion is welcome. I’m already looking forward to my next AAR. For my next AAR I hope to have two closer matched opponents and a bit meatier scenario. Happy reading. My own comments. I don’t think I used the acceleration and climbing rules very well / at all. This is something I will need to cover again. 3.3.4 gives an Altitude Change Table (page 3-7) where high performance (F-15) aircraft can climb 1000m per phase. Is this 1000m rate of climb per tactical turn or engagement turn? It goes on to say “aircraft climbing at more than 50% of maximum rate cannot accelerate at the same time. I think in my AAR above, I had the F-15 climbing at 1000 per 15 second movement phase in an engagement turn, and accelerating at 100kts per hour, so that might have all been wrong (I was accelerating and climbing. Overall wouldn’t affect the game because the F-15 had enough time to do both, just not the way I worked it). I will use a different ship (maybe even a USA ship) and work my way through the rules of engaging an incoming missile. I used the Tarantul because I had recently read about Somalian pirates boarding cape size vessals. And the Tarantul is some kind of patrol boat I think. In the end it was a poor choice because it had no air radar, no ESM (this is very important because ESM range is often further than radar or even radar LOS ranges so ESM is often the first sign of “something is out there” and the Tarantul took the missile and sunk without me being able to use the CH rules (the CH rules seem easy enough to use, but I will have more comments in the next AAR about them).

No problem re the moderator. i just wanted to make sure i wasnt loosing my posts. Im in australia so i might be in a completly different time zone to you guys. Thanks for the massive response to my AAR. I plan to get a response up but need a couple of hours to get some work done first.

i've posted 4 posts tonight, but none are saving ... hmm, is there mod still vetting my posts? Or something? "testing"

thanks for the feedback, and answering some of my questions. for some reason i thought sub v sub would be the easiest place to start. i hope to get another small encounter and AAR up soon. If anyone else has AAR's, it would be good to see them get posted up.

thanks guys. For some reason i thought sub v sub would be the easiest place to start. This is my first time playing any sort of navel game. IF you do have comments at any time, throw them in. Thanks for the answers to questions. I'm hoping to get a chance to run through another simple encounter soon, and write it up.

I'd agree with you. Further though, i'd say if you had more than one contact in the same area and you loose them all. If you do reacquire them (or some of them), you might have the same amount of contacts but not know which contact is which specific unit any more. And you'd need to re-classify and re-TMA each unit if they were close together. Just a thought.

I agree that loss of detection shouldnt mean you have to reclassify. But then i'm a newbie. But, what if you have two units near each other, loose contact with both, regain it ... you know what the units are but maybe not which contact is which unit now?

OK guys, just finished writing up my first AAR. Its a fairly simple affair. Sorry its not written in a more exciting way but for now i was trying to make sure i could run something simple for myself. Comment away if you wish. ____________________________________________________ LA class submarine heading east. Akula class submarine (referred to as AK) heading west, on a collision course with the LA. Yes, a simple and contrived scenario. But I’m more interested in working my way through the rules of Harpoon 4.1. This is my first attempt at it. I’ll reference rules along the way to either help others out or have people comment on my own interpretations. LA speed (D20 die roll) is 11kts. AK speed is (D20) 9kts. Depth is the same, none is set though. Both subs are using passive sonar. Sea state is 1. Before starting the game i worked out the chances of each detecting the other to save time and see what sort of range i was looking at to start. LA passive sonar has a range of 5.1nm. Using sonar range mods on page 4-11. Multiplied by 0.5 for AK being very quiet. Multiplied by 2.0 for target speed Multiplied by lower of sea state 2.0 or own ships speed 1.0 (therefore use 1.0) Calculation then is 5.1 * 0.5 * 2.0 * 1.0 = 5.1nm 75% = 5.1nm * 0.4 = 2.0nm (rounded to nearest decimal) 50% = 5.1 * 1.1 = 5.6nm 25% = 5.1 * 1.5 = 7.7 nm AK passive sonar has a range of 3.4nm. Using sonar range mods on page 4-11. Multiplied by 0.5 for LA being very quiet. Multiplied by 2.0 for target speed Multiplied by lower of sea state 2.0 or own ships speed 1.0 (therefore use 1.0) Calculation then is 3.4 * 0.5 * 2.0 * 1.0 = 3.4nm 75% = 3.4nm * 0.4 = 1.4 nm (rounded to nearest decimal) 50% = 3.4 * 1.1 = 3.7 nm 25% = 3.4 * 1.5 =5.1 nm Tactical turns (3 mins) in effect Time 0.00.0 Starting distance apart is set at 7.0nm to keep the encounter short. Plot phase: Both move in straight line towards one another Move: (combined closing speed is 20kts or 1.0nm per tac turn) so distance is reduced to 6.0nm Detect: range is 6.0nm so LA has a 25% chance (rolled 38) therefore no detection. AK has no chance to detect (6.0nm is greater than AKs 25% limit of 5.1nm). 0.03.0 (tactical turns so 3 minutes later) Plot phase: both units move in straight line Move: due to combined closing speed, distance is now 5.0nm Detect: LA now has a 50% chance of detecting, rolls 81 so picks up nothing. AK has a 25% chance to detect the LA, rolls 47 so it picks up nothing. 0.06.0 Plot phase: both units move in straight line Move: due to combined closing speed, distance is now 4.0nm Detect: LA has a 50% chance of detecting, rolls 80 so picks up nothing. AK has a 25% chance to detect, rolls 72 so picks up nothing. 0.09.0 Plot phase: both units move in straight line Move: due to combined closing speed, distance is now 3.0nm Detect: LA now has a 50% chance of detecting, rolls 25 so picks up a contact. Rule 4.4.8 Target classification comes into effect. Using table on page 4-11 VLF-LF and very quiet contact gives a base chance of 10%. Target speed of 9kts gives a further +5% so there is a 15% chance to classify target. Rolled 26 which is Pc (15%) + 20% so the LA sub can determine the contact is a Russian sub. LA tries for TMA (6.2.1) using table on page 6-3. Range is 3.0nm or medium. LA is using passive sonar so +20% modifier. Die roll is 43 which on the medium line is higher than good (required less than 40) but lower than fair (between 41-50), so a fair target solution exists. AK has a 25% chance to detect, rolls 70 so picks up nothing. LA decides to change to engagement turns (30 seconds) 0.09.5 1st + 2nd movement (combined to save time) – LA slows speed to 6kts. This reduces the AK chance to detect the LA because it has dropped from a target speed of 2.0 to 1.0 on the passive sonar table. New combined closing speed is 9+6=15kts or 0.06nm per engagement turn (I rounded up to 0.1nm for ease) Range is now 3nm less 0.1 = 2.9nm 1st Fire phase – LA fires 2 Mk 48 torpedoes using Fair TMA. My understanding is a TMA can only be attempted once per tactical turn (rule 6.1.2) and I wanted to fire early rather than wait so I used the fair TMA gained earlier (rules check anyone?) Rule 5.5.4 says 20% chance of wire breaking on each torpedo at launch. Rolls 03 and 15 so neither wire breaks. There is no need to check for breakage again unless LA changes course or speed/depth (5.5.4). There is no need to roll to hit yet, because the torpedo has not “arrived” on target. Detect phase – AK is most likely to detect the firing of the torpedo (masking rule 4.4.5.2). Calculations are AK passive sonar has a range of 3.4nm. Using sonar range mods on page 4-11. Multiplied by 2.0 for torpedo being noisy. Multiplied by 8.0 for target speed (55kts) Multiplied by lower of sea state 2.0 or own ships speed 1.0 (therefore use 1.0) Calculation then is 3.4 * 2.0 * 8.0 * 1.0 = 54.4nm 75% = 54.4nm * 0.4 = 21.7 nm which is well within range of both the sub and torpedo so no need to work anything else out. AK rolls 92 to detect (greater than 75% !), so picks up nothing. The LA sub is happy to go back to tactical turns (3 mins). (Rules check) This is where I am unclear on a rule. The AK sub has not detected anything, and has no reason to suspect it has been fired upon. So can the owner of the AK choose to go to engagement turns where he has an opportunity to pick up the torpedo and LA at a longer range than if tactical turns were being used? If engagement turns are being used there is a 0.5 penalty, but given the close range it wont change anything. There is still a 75% chance each 30 seconds of picking up the torpedo. If we use tactical turns, the torpedo will be much much closer (6 times closer) before the AK can try to detect the torpedo again using 3 minute turns. And by then it might even have impacted. Any comments on this would be great. For sake of argument, AK chooses to keep engagement turns (30 seconds). 0.10.0 Two movement phases combined. The two subs closing speed of 15kts is unchanged so range is now 2.8nm. Closing speed of torpedo and AK is 9 + 55 = 64 kts or 0.3nm per engagement turn so range has fallen to 2.6nm. AK to detect is 75% rolls 48 so detects “something”. 4-11 passive sonar classification calculations LF-MF and noisy target is a base of 10% and passive torpedo +20% so 30% chance. Rolls 75. Roll of 75 is higher than 30% + 41% so no data is able to be determined. At this point, I decided to stay with tactical turns (3 mins). 0.13.0 The torpedo and AK combine to move 3.2nm in the tactical turn which is more than the 2.6nm required, so I can roll for the torpedo to hit. The LA and AK subs are 2.8 less 0.8nm = 2.0nm apart. So, the to hit roll for the torpedo. Page 6-28 shows homing torpedoes with wires attached table. Generation 3 Mk 48 torpedoes against Generation 3 ACM of AK submarine gives a to hit probability of 75%. The AK has not detected the torpedo so there are no modifiers for countermeasures or manoeuvring. The to hit probability of 75% is adjusted by our “fair” TMA, so 75 * 0.8 from the Homing torpedo TMA solution table on page 6-30 gives a to hit chance of 60% for each torpedo. To hit rolls of 54 and 62 so one hits. Moving into chapter 7 for damage then. AK has 138 hit points and takes 75 damage points from the torpedo, leaving it 63 points. For critical hits damage ratio is 75/63 = 1.19 but I’ll use the 1.0 line on the table on page 7-2. D6 roll of 2 = 7 critical hit rolls. I havent worked out details past this point yet. Areas of improvement Can a player switch to engagement turns to detect contacts earlier than if using tactical turns? The player knows it may help him, but the units involved don’t know anything so … the player being able to use the rules to his advantage seems to be “against the spirit” of the rule. If a player had a contact but could not identify it, then I would agree using engagement turns should be available. If TMA of fair is gained, can a better TMA be rolled for in the next engagement turn? Or can a TMA only be attempted each tactical turn? I’m pretty sure the AK submarine has Anechoic coating, so that should have been another 0.5 on the sonar range or affected the torpedo somehow. I have assumed after the torpedo is “fired” nothing else needs to be done. But after more reading I suspect I should have nominated the torpedo as passive until the range decreased to say, 1.0nm and then had it go “active”. This also would have been another chance for the AK to detect the torp (going active might be an automatic detection of the torpedo?). And then allowed the AK to take evasive manoeuvres or deploy counter measures. Does ESM apply to subs? Rule 4.4.3 talks about maintaining contact with known contacts. So I think the LA needed to roll to maintain the known AK (with a +15% for known contact). This roll should have occurred before the torpedo had a chance to hit. The LA did not choose to “cut the wires” of the torpedo at any point, and maybe that’s something that should have happened. This was a pretty simple example, but it gets you using allot of the rules. Simplified flowchart of order rules used after movement and detection Sonar detection 4.4 for contact Target classification attempt 4-11 TMA solution 6.1.2 Fire torpedo (does wire break 5.5.4) To hit chance 6.5.1

Er, thats great then. This is the place i must be after. I am on one of the yahoo sites but traffic is a little slow. I was looking for something more active. Thanks for the welcome ... my AAR and some questions from it going up now ...

Hey guys I just bought myself H4.1, and i'm looking for an active forum. Is this the place to be? I have some rules questions ... And tactical type questions ... I'd also like to post some simple AAR, to get feedback on my rule interpretations and let people see what i'm up to.