mavfin

2010.006 is expired, so I guess I'll have to deal with 2009.050, as the current beta is *too* experimental. However, any advice as to if it might be better to play the old (fixed DB) battleset games under a certain old version for better results? 1.58e? 1.62b? Or the current HUCE?

HC will definitely run faster on the Core 2 Duo. The Atom and Core 2 series cannot be compared GigaHertz to GigaHerts, the Core 2 just plain does a whole lot more per clock cycle than the Atom. Plus as Don hints, the second core will let Windows do a lot of its being on that second core while HC is sucking down processing power. Thanks Tony, I can confirm the 1.4Ghz Core 2 Duo spanks the 1.6Ghz Atom and even very intensive HCE scenarios are now flying along! Very pleased that I can now indulge my passion for Harpoon on the move! A comment on dual/more cores: On my computer, playing a currently very popular MMO with not a lot of multi-core support, the cores still help, because, core 1 handles the game's main thread, 2 cores handle graphics threads, and the 4th core handles the OS, so everything functions fine, even if I tab out ahd look on the web for something. I can even run 2 instances of the MMO for a short time to trade items between characters on different accounts, etc. I can also run Windows XP in a VM and play Harpoon on 1 virtual core. give it 1 GB of RAM, and it plays fine that way in emulation, H3ANW works fine, too. Four 64-bit cores running a 64-bit OS emulating a 32-bit OS has CPU to burn.

I've been playing Harpoon since 1995 or so, and while the game occasionally gets lucky like this, it's definitely not a pattern I can see in the game as an all-the-time thing. Usually, for every group I get blown out of the sky with a few missiles, I blow something of theirs up as easily, usually. I lose more often with the newer DB (EC2003, etc) than with the old, but I win fairly consistently with both. However: What Akula or someone said about holding off the launch a few seconds is exactly right. If you fire at max range, it's not unknown for the AI to jink and outrange the missiles on you. Missiles out of fuel don't hit much. Even Phoenixes. Especially don't fire early on anything with an uncertainty zone. Also, if jammers are up, that will hurt you, especially in old DB scenarios, as those PKs weren't written with that in mind. Also, how does the HUCE version compare with the 'current beta' version? i.e. is it older than the hills, and, if so, can we put in the beta files to bring it up to date?

Buyit! you know you want to I just did. I'm going to run it on my Mac in a Windows XP SP 3 VM (Love having BSD underneath)

Mainly because I've read all of you talking about it, just finished The Sixth Battle. Definitely was worth finding a copy. Now I'm reading Cauldron (again).

The stats listed above are for the 'mount' (i.e. turret), but I don't think there is any reason why you could not fire one barrel at a time (in the Harpoon4 sense). In other words, fire six shells at one target (from the forward two turrets) and three shells against another (from the aft turret). Yeah. If you get close enough to fire those guns at modern warships, it only takes one hit anyway, unless you're shooting at another Iowa. If a Kirov/Slava/Kiev lets an Iowa that close, he's in a world of hurt. Those guns were made to kill stuff when the opposition had armor plate and steel, not light steel and aluminum.

Which makes good sense. Just annoying in the scenarios not made that way. Sure, I could split them all up, but, I guess the annoyance is less than the work to do that. At least if you lose the contact, the plane doesn't automatically set course to right on top of the sub anymore. That behavior's gone.

I've been noticing lately that if I detect one sub of a group, within a minute or so, I'll detect the other. At first I thought that was fine, they're pretty close together. But, then I looked at the detection. I was playing a scenario with two surface ASW groups patrolling about 150 miles apart north/south from each other. A submarine was detected by a north group sonobuoy, about 15 miles north of the group, so about 165 miles from the south group. ~1 min later, its groupmate was detected...by CZ contact from the south group? What? You mean it was loud enough for the south group to see it 165 miles away, but the Spruance at 5 knots 10 miles from it never got a sniff? Seems like the game is giving something away here? Or is it just my imagination? This happens all the time, too, with grouped AI subs and detections. The above is just one example.

I'll have to test the detection on the vlow issue. I was playing Alpha Strike and noticed my vlow 'truders weren't fired on at 35 miles by the Patriots. I'll use the SE to add an E3 to it and see if the Patriots fire at range at the vlow a/c. Also, did you see my question about shipboard ECM I edited in just as you were answering? (basically, in the older DBs, where there's no ECM weapon loadouts for ships, does that mean there's no ECM at all vs incoming missiles, or is it just not visible in those?) MODALPHA.SCb.zip Using the file above (HDS2 NACV, mod of Alpha Strike) I tested the missile firing with a known detection while over the horizon from the SAMs. It's simply the original scenario with an added E3 on formation patrol within a few miles of the base to give detection of vlow aircraft before they come over the horizon for the base radars. First run: I set the two antiradar groups just outside AAW range of the base and waited till the A-6s with guided loadout got to firing range (35 nm). Jammers were active on the Prowlers, but I still got told to turn on radars at launch anyway. At 33 nm, I fired all the Walleyes, and also all the HARMS from the groups hovering outside AAW range. The AI didn't fire any SAMS till it saw missiles in the air. It expended a lot of missiles trying to kill 26 HARMS, and ended up with a dead radar, but, the E3 was still up. Finished off the base with iron bombs, as the Patriots had no radar, I guess, even though the AAW range hadn't reduced to Hawk range. Second run: Just to make sure that the SAMS *would* fire at vlow targets as they came over the horizon, I launched 6 A-6s with an ironbomb loadout, changed them to vlow after launch, and sent them in to attack without jammers or anything else up. They were asked to turn on radars at ~50 miles, and were fired on and killed by SAMs somewhere in the 20-25 nm range, which is about right for vlow coming over the horizon. I guess I might need to test this on a commondb scenario if you think I should, but it seems to work right in my testing. (Oh, and this is all in 2010.006, btw) PPS: Another note on things that worked: The actual first run, I RTBed the A-6s as soon as I fired the Walleyes, at VLow altitude. The Walleyes lost datalink before they got to the target, and I lost them. So, that worked properly. The 'First run' above, I kept them loitering in range, and the missiles impacted. Thought you'd like to know.

Yes, ECM pods have worked for quite a long while (added during the WestPac beta in the 2003-2005 timeframe). The capability was added to mounts (ships, installations, probably subs too) in 2007 after the HCE release. Interesting that SAMs aren't firing beyond the horizon, can't say I remember that being limited by code but the detection sure is. There isn't a way to know which aircraft are VLow capable unless you use the Platform Editor (PE). I'll have to test the detection on the vlow issue. I was playing Alpha Strike and noticed my vlow 'truders weren't fired on at 35 miles by the Patriots. I'll use the SE to add an E3 to it and see if the Patriots fire at range at the vlow a/c. Also, did you see my question about shipboard ECM I edited in just as you were answering? (basically, in the older DBs, where there's no ECM weapon loadouts for ships, does that mean there's no ECM at all vs incoming missiles, or is it just not visible in those?)

Yes, you can. Next question: I think I saw in the patch notes somewhere that ECM pods now work on aircraft loadouts? Or did I imagine that? Also, do the aircraft sensors have to be on for those to work? What about aircraft w/o any sensors to turn on? (For example, the Jaguar A in some battlesets has no sensors to turn on, but it has an ECM pod in the loadout.) And the last question on the subject: If ECM pods work, do they only do so in the commondb, or do they work in the older battlesets, too? Thanks for any answers. PS: I have to say, one of my favorite changes is that vlow aircraft are not fired on till they come over the horizon now, instead of being fired at at 50 miles by Grumbles if they had a Mainstay detecting them. i.e. proper horizon for missile fire and detection. That does bring me to the question: how can I tell which aircraft are good at vlow altitude? I know Tornados are, for example, as well as 'truders, but how do I tell that they can handle it w/o crashing, other than just trying it and losing a/c if they can't? In addition, I notice that ships show ECM in their loadouts in the newer DBs and the commondb. Does this mean that the old battlesets have no ECM aboard ship for incoming missiles? Again, just gathering information for tactical considerations. Also, in the ones that show ECM, do they require sensors turned on, or are those automatic? (the decoys and naval ECM mk X)

I just keep an XP VM around to run Harpoon and a couple other things on. My main machine is a quad-core, 6 GB, nice vid card, but I don't need to run Windows natively for anything, so I don't. I have no idea how to even set up an XP virtual machine though. Someone will have to explain it step by step for me to even accomplish that. Well, I have VMWare to do it with, so that's like an $80 piece of software. I don't have it just for Harpoon, of course. I also run Win7 in a VM. (If you can't tell, I'm an IT geek, so this is what I call fun, along with Harpoon. )

I just keep an XP VM around to run Harpoon and a couple other things on. My main machine is a quad-core, 6 GB, nice vid card, but I don't need to run Windows natively for anything, so I don't.

Yeah, MP Harpoon really doesn't fire me up. I have games I can play MP in. Harpoon is my single-player escape. You just never know how it's going to end when you start a scenario. Last night, I ended up killing off five merchies with those twin 130mm mounts on a Sovremenny to get my victory, after using the sunburns on the AAW escorts. and losing a Udaloy to the opfor's last 4 exocets, after that Udaloy had killed I don't know how many piecemeal harpoons shot at me. Not how I expected to win, but, 18 of their ships in exchange for 2 of mine and 1 heavily damaged frigate was pretty good, I thought. I would have lost only one ship, but I forgot that the type 22/3 carries a (114mm?) gun, and he plinked a missile boat (bait!) in the front of my formation before the Sovremenny got in range. And, only 5 of those 18 ships were sunk by air, 1 with torpedoes, and 3 by Sunburn. The rest were gun kills. That's the beauty of Harpoon. You can end a scenario like that, but you can also command multi-carrier battle groups and land bases full of bombers, too, and you just never know what's going to hit you.

Yeah, Japanese airgroups were not as big on a per-carrier basis as the US ones. The two carriers at Coral Sea were Shokaku and Zuikaku, counterparts in many ways to the US Yorktown class CVs, but still carried less aircraft. The aircraft shot down by the US forces were sorely missed, along with their carriers (Shokaku took some bomb hits, iirc) at Midway a month later. Sho and Zui didn't come to Midway because of air group losses and repairs needed to Shokaku. I think Zuikaku remained mostly untouched till the Battle of Leyte Gulf, when she was finally sunk off Cape Engano, last of the Pearl Harbor strikers, iirc. Shokaku was already gone by that time, lost to a submarine at the Battle of the Philippine Sea. So, has anyone yet made scenarios for any of the big surface battles around Guadalcanal? There's a bunch of candidates. Cape Esperance, First and Second Battles of Guadalcanal, Savo Island, Tassafaronga, etc. You could probably model some of the PT vs the Tokyo Express engagements. Also, there's the fleet/carrier actions like Santa Cruz and Eastern Solomons. And of course the Cactus Air Force. I'm not that good at scenario design, but, if I had the time, I might have to look into some of that. I guess we'll see if I make time for it or not.

Excuse the thread necro, but I still have a very old copy of Red Phoenix around the house. The cover's been gone for years, but I still pull it out and read it occasionally. I have Vortex, too. Lost my copy of Cauldron somewhere, though. All great reads.

It will energize its radar and perform a High altitude airborne early warning (AEW) patrol if you set the associated Installation radars to active. Alternatively, you can click on the E-3 Sentry in the Unit Map window and activate its radar. Additionally, if you launch it on a 'Patrol' mission (where you pick a point on the map for it to go to and patrol) it will light up its sensors automatically when it reaches the patrol point. Just to make sure, I'll ask a dumb question: I can put a Raven or a Prowler up over a formation w/o radars/jammers on as an ESM platform, right?

This behavior has been changed in the latest version. What version are you running? The last 'released' version. 2008.044, I think? It's as far as it will upgrade w/o getting the beta. Been thinking about getting it, but haven't gotten around to it yet. Edit: I've now got 2009.036 running. Will post any weird behavior I don't remember seeing in the patch notes.

Hehe, how can you see anything? Or do you use large fonts (aka 120dpi or so)? I don't have any trouble, really.

Thanks for the links. Yeah, it's different, but it seems to be a good different. As I said elsewhere, HCE seems to be well worth what I paid for it. As far as the AI, yeah, it's still pretty dumb sometimes. In playing Gauntlet, the Victor launched 3 Type 65s at my formation from about 90 degrees. I immediately moved the ships, and got a sonobuoy out there to get a lock on the fish, and maybe get a lock on the sub, so I could either prosecute or get away. I found what direction they were heading and got the formation headed in a different direction safely, as he had fired at 20 miles, and in the wrong direction. Still, until the fish ran out of fuel, the staff kept wanting me to turn on my active sonars, once a minute.

1920x1080 on a 24" widescreen

I just bought (in the last 2 months) HCE. My last working version was the OLD Mac version of Classic, and I did get the beta of HC2002 for a while. So, anyway, I'm looking through it all, and I like the changes, but I did notice one thing: What, functionally, is the difference between the EC2000 and the EC2003 battlesets? Is there any? i.e. should I just ignore the 2000 ones, basically? Is it just there to support a base of scenarios written for it? Also, is there (somewhere) a list of back-end improvements to the simulation since the old days all in one place? Even if it's a list of patch notes, I can skim it so see what all is there. Even in the OLD hardcoded battlesets the game plays a little differently. Not a bad thing, I like it, but I'm curious what else I might not know about. I came in when you could still shoot harpoons at anything, and progressed to the days when LAND/SEA/SURFACE came in. For example, I ran Gauntlet a couple times, just to get a feel for the game again, and it felt different. Any info or links would be appreciated. And a gameplay question. Is the AI still so easy to fool by illuminating it once, and then you can locate it by ESM for the rest of the scenario's run?

Yeah, I play the game(s) in VMWare Fusion on my Mac Pro, in Unity Mode, so the windows just pop up on my Mac screen, so it's not like I'm having to reboot to Windows to play. If I had to do that, frankly, it would remain like it was, and not worth spending money on. Since neither game loads the graphics, and I have plenty of CPU, it works fine. I'm still not happy with them tossing out Mac Support, but, they're not Blizzard, with the customer base to support it. <shrug> As far as ANW, I'm not sure if it was worth the price in its current state. HCE was.

I run the game and any/all of its pieces under XP on VMWare. I actually run this all on a Mac. I have it Bootcamped on a piece of the 2nd HD, but I just virtualize the Bootcamp partition with VMWare Fusion to run anything w/o 3D graphics demands, rather than reboot the whole thing into Windows. You could do the same on about any 64-bit OS; i.e. virtualize XP or something that will run Harpoon. I still have the Harpoon Classic CD with the original battlesets up through HDS III. I do wish I could find the books I used to have with all the scenario descriptions in them.