July 17, 201510 yr As some of you may remember, years ago we implemented in HCE a delayed turn rate for aircraft such that they could no longer "turn on a dime" and fly in the opposite direction. Essentially it delayed the ability to turn by a period of time (i.e. wait X number of seconds before executing a turn) and the values varied between types, e.g. more rapidly for maneuvering fighters and more slowly for large transport types. These turning rates (so to speak) are still quite simplistic and still allow an aircraft to change direction relatively quickly. The time has come, perhaps, to further adjust these values to impose a further degree of realism. Note that these are only for player-entered turns, and not turns between course points. Note as well that the same behaviour can potentially be applied against changes in altitude and would affect more than just aircraft (e.g. diving submarines). Thoughts? Would you be in favour of instituting these kinds of changes?
July 17, 201510 yr Positively yes. I did a table with (I hope realistic) aircraft turn rates a few years ago, I will go to clean and post it the next days.
July 18, 201510 yr I'm in favour of anything that improves realism and/or gives AI a better chance. Related to this, one thing I notice with supersonic aircraft in particular is that if you make a direction change and go from cruise to burner you get up to speed instantly but delay in turn.
July 20, 201510 yr Author I think we will need to increase the values by at least 3x (but more likely 5x) to see any appreciable difference in game play.
July 20, 201510 yr Existing calculation... ATA_Group = GetGroupATA(Turning_group); // gets lowest ATA in the group if (ATA_Group <= 0) ATA_Group = 2; // very very poor // Helicopter kludge follows if ((Turning_group->type == HELO) && ATA_Group < 18) ATA_Group = 18; // 10 seconds for a 360 degree turn time = 3 * (long)((60.0 / (float)ATA_Group) * deltacourse / 360.0); You can find the individual plane type ATA numbers in the PE (Platform Editor).
July 21, 201510 yr Author Thanks for the calc, Tony. So in game terms, for a fighter that shows 1 sec to execute turn, I am saying we will need to see changes that are 3x or 5x more before appreciable results.
July 30, 201510 yr Okay, we have 3x - 5x as the suggestion. Please pick 3x, 4x, or 5x and I'll make it so.
July 30, 201510 yr A few real life data about 180 degrees turn time, as adjunt file. Modificaciones Harpoon turn rate.doc
September 15, 201510 yr Already did HCE - 2015.012 - 2015-08-05 ========================== - Chg:0000 GE Changed aircraft turn rate, made it 5x slower.
September 15, 201510 yr Author Thanks. I went looking through release notes but must have been looking at an older copy.
September 16, 201510 yr Author Running 2015.015 ... Seeing the change in transport and tanker types but not among fighter class aircraft. The latter are still turning in 1 sec. I guess 5x wasn't enough? Or something else going on?
September 16, 201510 yr Run the numbers and see, perhaps the turn isn't severe enough to be over 1 second? time = 3 x ((60 / ATA_Group) x HeadingChangeInDegrees/ 360) x 5 F-15C/D ATA = 40 time = 3 x ((60/40) x HeadingChangeInDegrees/360) x 5 time = 15 x ((1.5 x HeadingChangeInDegrees)/360) HeadingChangeInDegrees = 45 time = 15 x ((1.5 x 45)/360 time = 15 x (67.5/360) time = 15 x 0.1875 time = 2.81 seconds (I think this gets truncated to 2 seconds) If the game isn't matching then there is an issue somewhere.
September 16, 201510 yr Author Yeah, aircraft with ATA 30 (e.g. Tornado IDS IT-MLU) are making 360 deg turns in 1 sec. A tanker with ATA 5 (e.g. C-135FR) is making a 360 deg turn in 75 sec.
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