Got a few AARs going up now, and discussion.

 

Any thoughts on tactics though?

 

I've thrown a few planes into dog fights etc, rolled the dice, played out scenarios. But no real thought to tactics. Any ideas how tactics could come into play for any scenario?

Got a few AARs going up now, and discussion.

 

Any thoughts on tactics though?

 

I've thrown a few planes into dog fights etc, rolled the dice, played out scenarios. But no real thought to tactics. Any ideas how tactics could come into play for any scenario?

 

Hi KC, I think that these rules are more conceptual because the player is envisioned as a hugher commander, not the pilot. Specific aerial maneuvers and tactics are not well represented, if at all. That's my take at least. For more "in the weeds" air combat I use the old Air Superiority/Air Strike (Clash of Arms Speed of Heat/Airpower) system.

 

Apparently there is an even more representative game called Birds of Prey which at this point makes my hair hurt whenever I look into it.

 

For more "fun" airbattles I have also toyed with Airwar C21 and Fox Two Reheat on my gaming table. (I also have the old AH Flight Leader up in the attic.)

For more "fun" airbattles I have also toyed with Airwar C21 and Fox Two Reheat on my gaming table. (I also have the old AH Flight Leader up in the attic.)

 

Yes for Flight Leader, and yes for its PC version, Flight Commander 2.

For more "in the weeds" air combat I use the old Air Superiority/Air Strike (Clash of Arms Speed of Heat/Airpower) system.

 

Do you know how easy it would be to convert some of those data cards to Harpoon Standards? I realize that Harpoon doesn't have that "in weeds" feel you describe, but sometimes when I have a few minutes of free time, I'd love to be able to crunch some numbers, throw a few dice, and game out a huge aerial battle between some F-86's and MiG-15's. Using Airpower for that tends to take forever and a lot of table space.

 

Also, if you don't mind, what part of the world do you live in, pmaidhof? If you were close to Michigan, I'd love a chance to play some Airpower FtF.

I like Pete's description of where Harpoon fits on the strategic vs tactical scale. The tactics in Harpoon are when to launch planes, where to send them, how many to launch. So planning that happens long before the examples you are playing. You are testing the rules and getting a feel for them but the magic in Harpoon happens 'before the merge'.

 

Intrepid gamers combine multiple rulesets at times. There may be a grand strategy level with diplomacy, economics and such, then a Harpoon type level once the shooting starts, and then in your face turn and burn rules for individual engagements.

Also, if you don't mind, what part of the world do you live in, pmaidhof? If you were close to Michigan, I'd love a chance to play some Airpower FtF.

 

Long Island, New York. Not close enough for a road trip.

 

But, there's always vassal or cyberbox, neither am I completely "fluent" in however.

I understand that H4.1 isnt made to deal with tactical manouvers per plane etc ...

 

But what about "high level tactics" or "strategy".

 

I guess i was thinking like planes at high or low levels, or just putting your unit in the best position for it to succeed (or put your enemy in its worst position), whatever that may be. I'm wondering what options there are.

 

Its maybe even situational things. As a sub commander do you go deep-and-slow or run fast from that surface hunter?

 

I'll try and think up some other examples or more specific questions.

I'll try and think up some other examples or more specific questions.

 

Of the top of my head, and you already alluded to as well, approaching at Very Low level to close on an enemy or tartet, along with the inherent dangers as played out by my terrible crash rolls a few scenarios ago.

 

A warship only utilizing a commercial nav radar in order to deceive an enemy ESM efforts for a short period of time, possible enough to get within its weapons effective range.

 

...

As a sub commander do you go deep-and-slow or run fast from that surface hunter?

 

Running away fast is always risky. You could go deep and slow (or deep and not so slow), or maybe stay close to the surface if the weather is bad and hope to get lost in the 'clutter'.

You never run fast *away* from the target... If you are running fast, you'll need an escort to Hades anyways, might as well bring a couple with you.

 

(Standard caveat applies, never never means never, but merely almost never.)

As a sub commander do you go deep-and-slow or run fast from that surface hunter?

 

Running away fast is always risky. You could go deep and slow (or deep and not so slow), or maybe stay close to the surface if the weather is bad and hope to get lost in the 'clutter'.

 

Or you could just put a couple of torpedoes into him.

Or you could just put a couple of torpedoes into him.

 

Right on, clear datum toward the target.

The "Scott" (Kidd class DDG) has been isolated from its battlegroup after a series of mechanical failures, and now finds itself playing catch-up on its own. It surges through sea state 5 oceans at 25kts in an effort to rejoin the protection offered by a battle group.

 

270 miles away a Tu-22M Backfire fires two AS-4 "Kitchen" missles. Kitchens. These things are huge. The largest air to surface missle there is. The missile itself is the size of a small fighter(5.7tons). The combination of 2,303kts and 5.7t alone is probably enough kinetic energy to sink most warships. And thats before the 900kg of warhead is accounted for.

 

At 2,303kts it going to take about 6 minutes before the Kitchen finds "Scott".

 

The Scott picks up via its ESM that theres a firing rader in the area and goes "on alert".

 

Can the Scott pick up the incoming Kitchens on radar? I will assume it can although i am having a blank as to how it would do it (or is ESM enough?).

 

The first Kitchen screams in. The Kidds air defence system (Mk 15 Phalanx 20mm) has a 65% chance of hitting the incoming missile at a range of 1.0nm. Fearing the 6.4.1.1 3 second rule coming into play, the Mk 45 127mm which also has .65 chance at a range of 6 miles is used instead. The chance is modified by -10% for the missle being > 1,000kts, so 55% chance of the missile being hit.

 

Obviously a variety of outcomes are possible . But it boils down to the Kidd having a 55% chance of downing each of the 2 incoming Kitchens. And if they survive the 127mm protection theres another 55% chance the Phalanx 20mm system will stop them (though there will be airburst type damage). But using round numbers, theres a 25% chance for each Kitchen to hit the Kidd.

 

If a Kitchen hits, it does 150 points of damage and the critical hit damage will be massive.

 

Does the Kidd have any other options or chances?

Does the Kidd have any other options or chances?

 

 

Well, there's the two twin-rail launchers for SM2MR SAMs. And if all the active defences fail, there's the 3rd generation jamming and deception ECM. And you can always hope that the Kitchens blow their to-hit roll.

I guess the Kidd gets two AA rolls of 55% to hit the kitchen.

 

Then theres the SM2MR SAMs i will need to check out.

 

And what i missed in my earlier post was the kitchen has a 65% chance to hit the kidd if they survive the AA rolls.