Libya No Fly Zone

[CV32]

Another surprising development (from Aviation Week's Ares blog):

 

Libya: Sweden prepares for possible Gripen use

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BBC reports that an F-15E has crashed in Libya due to mechanical failure and that the pilot has been recovered by the rebels.

 

Pics of the crash site courtesy of The Telegraph

 

Pilot was apparently picked up by a V-22 and the WSO rescued by the rebels.

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RAF Tornado GR.4s are moving up to Gioa de Colle (Italy).

 

HMS Triumph also confirmed as the Tomahawk shooter.

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Ut oh, SA-24 Grinch in Libya ...

 

From Aviation Week's Ares blog

 

[excerpt]

 

Who Provided Libya's New SAMs?

Posted by David A. Fulghum at 3/23/2011 8:14 AM CDT

 

A new, much-dreaded, short-range anti-aircraft missile made in Russia has turned up in the hands of Libyan government forces ... The Russian-made SA-24 Grinch can shoot down coalition aircraft effectively at altitudes up to about 11,000 ft.

[Warhorse64]

Ut oh, SA-24 Grinch in Libya ...

 

 

I don't know that it ought to make much practical difference. The strikers enforcing the NFZ will be up too high to care, and the humanitarian flights are going to be flying so low and slow that machine guns are a threat, never mind light SAMs.

[CV32]

I don't know that it ought to make much practical difference. The strikers enforcing the NFZ will be up too high to care, and the humanitarian flights are going to be flying so low and slow that machine guns are a threat, never mind light SAMs.

 

Perhaps not so much as far as the conflict in Libya goes, even though SA-24 ranks among the more fearsome MANPADS, but it also means that if and when the regime is defeated, who grabs up any SA-24s and where do they go from there.

[Warhorse64]

I don't know that it ought to make much practical difference. The strikers enforcing the NFZ will be up too high to care, and the humanitarian flights are going to be flying so low and slow that machine guns are a threat, never mind light SAMs.

 

Perhaps not so much as far as the conflict in Libya goes, even though SA-24 ranks among the more fearsome MANPADS, but it also means that if and when the regime is defeated, who grabs up any SA-24s and where do they go from there.

 

Again, it's unlikely to matter, IMO. For purposes of terrorism against civilian flights, any MANPADS at all will do, and there's already plenty out there. For purposes of embarrassing a Western air force, the Russians haven't forgotten how the mujaheddin got all those Stingers. They're more than willing to return the favour, repeatedly.

[CV32]

Again, it's unlikely to matter, IMO. For purposes of terrorism against civilian flights, any MANPADS at all will do, and there's already plenty out there. For purposes of embarrassing a Western air force, the Russians haven't forgotten how the mujaheddin got all those Stingers. They're more than willing to return the favour, repeatedly.

 

I am not sure if you're heckuva lot more optimistic than me, or whether its actually pessimism.

 

Either way, if I'm flying, I think I'd take the time expired SA-7b over the new SA-24 any day and if I'm buying (as the bad guys will be), its going to be the SA-24 that grabs my attention.

[Silent Hunter UK]

Reports coming that a Libyan Galeb has been shot down by French fighter jets.

[broncepulido]

Reports coming that a Libyan Galeb has been shot down by French fighter jets.

With an AASM inmediatly after the Galeb is landed.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/24/...E72N60320110324

"The French patrol carried out an air-to-ground strike with an AASM weapon just after the plane had landed at the Misrata air base," the spokesman said.

[Warhorse64]

Again, it's unlikely to matter, IMO. For purposes of terrorism against civilian flights, any MANPADS at all will do, and there's already plenty out there. For purposes of embarrassing a Western air force, the Russians haven't forgotten how the mujaheddin got all those Stingers. They're more than willing to return the favour, repeatedly.

 

I am not sure if you're heckuva lot more optimistic than me, or whether its actually pessimism.

 

Either way, if I'm flying, I think I'd take the time expired SA-7b over the new SA-24 any day and if I'm buying (as the bad guys will be), its going to be the SA-24 that grabs my attention.

 

It's definitely pessimism. An airliner on final is a clout shot for any MANPADS. And anybody who is in a position to shoot at NATO warplanes will be able to buy SA-24s straight from the Russians, so it really doesn't matter what happens to the ones that are currently in Libya, does it? The threat remains constant, regardless.

[CV32]

French Rafales and Mirage 2000Ds apparently used SCALP air launched cruise missiles in a night mission against an airbase south of Benghazi.

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And anybody who is in a position to shoot at NATO warplanes will be able to buy SA-24s straight from the Russians, so it really doesn't matter what happens to the ones that are currently in Libya, does it? The threat remains constant, regardless.

 

The rumour (or rather, supposition) was that Venezuela might have supplied these SA-24s. Although that would have been quite a timely transaction.

 

My original point, btw, was not that there was some kind of a 'new' threat (MANPADS was already a threat), but that the nature of that particular threat was potentially worse.

[broncepulido]

At last a glimpse of the truth is revealing now:

Libyan rebel commander admits his fighters have al-Qaeda links

In an interview with the Italian newspaper Il Sole 24 Ore, Mr al-Hasidi admitted that he had recruited "around 25" men from the Derna area in eastern Libya to fight against coalition troops in Iraq. Some of them, he said, are "today are on the front lines in Adjabiya".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/...aeda-links.html

 

And as is reflected in Blackfive:

http://www.blackfive.net/main/2011/03/givi...%28BLACKFIVE%29

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Air Force Times is saying they dropped 45 x 2,000 lb bombs, so I am guessing 15 apiece.

 

Apparently it was the B-2s Spirit of Mississippi, Spirit of Pennsylvania and Spirit of Louisiana and they struck Ghardabiya (Sirte) airfield.

 

Given the size of the warload, however, I am still left wondering if they didn't execute a "grand tour" of sorts, dropping JDAMs on more than one airfield.

 

Meanwhile, RAF getting lots of good weapons testing with the Paveway IV and Brimstone dual mode.