I agree that it doesn't "feel" right, but ... Sea Sparrows are point defense missiles, and it may be that the game will only use them for defense of the platform they're mounted on. The other possibility is that, IIRC, the engangement cycle for SAMs in the game gets run every 30 seconds. It could be that the surviving SSMs reached their target before the start of the next engagement cycle, and thus there was no time for the Sparrows to be launched.

iam afraid your'e right,ill just have to change tactic's.

i wont use frigates with only point defense missiles as shotgun escorts anymore (hugging a high value target with a escort ship carrying only essm's)

I think that's as in the real world, CGs and DDGs escorting CVs, not FFG or DD escorting CVs

I agree that it doesn't "feel" right, but ... Sea Sparrows are point defense missiles, and it may be that the game will only use them for defense of the platform they're mounted on. The other possibility is that, IIRC, the engangement cycle for SAMs in the game gets run every 30 seconds. It could be that the surviving SSMs reached their target before the start of the next engagement cycle, and thus there was no time for the Sparrows to be launched.

iam afraid your'e right,ill just have to change tactic's.

i wont use frigates with only point defense missiles as shotgun escorts anymore (hugging a high value target with a escort ship carrying only essm's)

I think that's as in the real world, CGs and DDGs escorting CVs, not FFG or DD escorting CVs

To start with, the dutch navy doesnt have any CG's or DDG's but does have LPD's and other high value targets, do you think there set to sea without escorts because there aren't any??, also iam talking about a merchant not a CV.and by the way the settup we are discussing is not how realistic the tactics are but how the effective the ships airdefense is.

when i checked the karel doorman's ammo and i saw that it only fired it's 76 mm gun,wich means that the karel doorman's SAM's never fired on the incomming missiles while the SSM's almost overflew my frigate.

 

 

now game balance or not,this doesnt feel right and i hope that someone will agree with me.

 

Try the same scen but change the "Auto"value for the Mk48 16 cell VLS RIM-7M from "0" to "1" in the Platform editor and try the same scen again....

 

 

Regards René

I agree that it doesn't "feel" right, but ... Sea Sparrows are point defense missiles, and it may be that the game will only use them for defense of the platform they're mounted on.

 

The Game has no "use in Selfdefense only option" but a "use in point defense cycle too" option this is switched on/off with the auto value on a mount, 1=on= use in point defence cycle too.

 

The other possibility is that, IIRC, the engangement cycle for SAMs in the game gets run every 30 seconds. It could be that the surviving SSMs reached their target before the start of the next engagement cycle, and thus there was no time for the Sparrows to be launched.

 

Possible, but

there are game saves around showing that SAMs refuse to fire even when the firing envelope matches the incomming target.

 

French DDG with Mascura gets sunk with full SAM Load, while FF fires Sea Sparrow on the SSM on the way the the DDG....

 

 

regrds René

To start with, the dutch navy doesnt have any CG's or DDG's but does have LPD's and other high value targets,

 

The german F-124 is rated as a FFG for political reasons, i think the very simliar LCF is a FFG for the same reason, they have nearly the firepower of a Kidd Class DDG and more power than the CF Adams, Decatur, Mitscher Class DDG......

 

So they are armed like DDG, why not use them as DDG?

 

 

The F-124 was build as a replacement for the Lütjens DDG they serve as AAW Ships in the same role.

To start with, the dutch navy doesnt have any CG's or DDG's but does have LPD's and other high value targets,

 

The german F-124 is rated as a FFG for political reasons, i think the very simliar LCF is a FFG for the same reason, they have nearly the firepower of a Kidd Class DDG and more power than the CF Adams, Decatur, Mitscher Class DDG......

 

So they are armed like DDG, why not use them as DDG?

 

 

The F-124 was build as a replacement for the Lütjens DDG they serve as AAW Ships in the same role.

true

when i checked the karel doorman's ammo and i saw that it only fired it's 76 mm gun,wich means that the karel doorman's SAM's never fired on the incomming missiles while the SSM's almost overflew my frigate.

 

 

now game balance or not,this doesnt feel right and i hope that someone will agree with me.

 

Try the same scen but change the "Auto"value for the Mk48 16 cell VLS RIM-7M from "0" to "1" in the Platform editor and try the same scen again....

 

 

Regards René

thanks for the tip,but what will it change?

oke now with JoeK aside we can continue with this topic

 

let me see if i can explain the following..

 

i have a scenario where i have tree ships in this setting(all radars on):

 

- a mechant ship

 

-a karel doorman frigate (The Karel Doorman is carrying VLS RIM-7M)

 

and a zeven provincien frigate (LCF).(the LCF carries a Smart-L radar and SM2 blockIIIA missiles)

 

(both frigates from the Netherlands)

 

the formation of this group is:

 

mechant in the middle,the LCF 8 nm from the merchant to the west and the karel doorman 1nm east of the merchant

 

enemy surface group 50 nm to the east.

 

the scenario evolves like this:

 

the enemy surface group launches it's SSM's (targeted at the merchant) to witch the LCF answers with it's salvo SM2's,not all the SSM get shot down,the surviving missiles overfly the karel doorman and hit the merchant,sadly the merchant sinks.

 

when i checked the karel doorman's ammo and i saw that it only fired it's 76 mm gun,wich means that the karel doorman's SAM's never fired on the incomming missiles while the SSM's almost overflew my frigate.

 

 

now game balance or not,this doesnt feel right and i hope that someone will agree with me.

Hey Joe, WHAT kind of SSM is fired, and what altitude do they fly at?

thanks for the tip,but what will it change?

 

 

The mount will get a second/aditional engagement envelope. It will fire automatically in "self defense"

thanks for the tip,but what will it change?

 

 

The mount will get a second/aditional engagement envelope. It will fire automatically in "self defense"

Great!thanks for that

thanks for the tip,but what will it change?

 

 

The mount will get a second/aditional engagement envelope. It will fire automatically in "self defense"

Great!thanks for that

 

did it help, change anything?

i cant use the platform editor yet,excel 2007 gives al lot of errors,i need to look in to it..

i cant use the platform editor yet,excel 2007 gives al lot of errors,i need to look in to it..

 

 

use an access2000 runtime instead.....

i cant use the platform editor yet,excel 2007 gives al lot of errors,i need to look in to it..

 

Should work fine with Access 2007 (does for me anyway).

 

http://wiki.computerharpoon.com/index.php/...ide#Access_2007 might help.

oke now with JoeK aside we can continue with this topic

 

let me see if i can explain the following..

 

i have a scenario where i have tree ships in this setting(all radars on):

 

- a mechant ship

 

-a karel doorman frigate (The Karel Doorman is carrying VLS RIM-7M)

 

and a zeven provincien frigate (LCF).(the LCF carries a Smart-L radar and SM2 blockIIIA missiles)

 

(both frigates from the Netherlands)

 

the formation of this group is:

 

mechant in the middle,the LCF 8 nm from the merchant to the west and the karel doorman 1nm east of the merchant

 

enemy surface group 50 nm to the east.

 

the scenario evolves like this:

 

the enemy surface group launches it's SSM's (targeted at the merchant) to witch the LCF answers with it's salvo SM2's,not all the SSM get shot down,the surviving missiles overfly the karel doorman and hit the merchant,sadly the merchant sinks.

 

when i checked the karel doorman's ammo and i saw that it only fired it's 76 mm gun,wich means that the karel doorman's SAM's never fired on the incomming missiles while the SSM's almost overflew my frigate.

 

 

now game balance or not,this doesnt feel right and i hope that someone will agree with me.

Hey Joe, WHAT kind of SSM is fired, and what altitude do they fly at?

I wrote up a quick scenario on what I knew about the situation in question and had a play.

Used current standard data base and 2009.42 game engine. I didn't know the enemy ships or the SSMs in question and I'd think that is where the answers lie. In my original scenario (now lost) both blue ships fired SAMs including sea sparrows at the incoming SSMs (styxs I think). In the attached sscenario (with DDGs added to the enemy) I don't think the sea sparrows get used, for what ever reason.

Thinking about some of the comments here I'd guess it depends on the type of SSM and how many SAMs are estimated by AI to be needed and if the sea sparrows aren't required in any salvo to make up those numbers then they aren't fired.

I've attached my last version of the scenario and an early saved game (in which I think the sea sparrows ae fired) if any one interested.

Don

sea_sparrow.zip