In harpoon CE i cant engage hostile air units while they're in my engagement envelope.When i order a unit to attack air units within range i get the message "surface to air attacks air handled automatically "

i never understood why this is not possible,sometimes red fighter planes fly really close to my ships and the ai never fires a shot!!

 

Can someone exlpain this to me?

In harpoon CE i cant engage hostile air units while they're in my engagement envelope.When i order a unit to attack air units within range i get the message "surface to air attacks air handled automatically "

i never understood why this is not possible,sometimes red fighter planes fly really close to my ships and the ai never fires a shot!! Can someone exlpain this to me?

 

Firstly, all surface to air engagements are indeed handled automatically. Something most of us would like to modify eventually, but for now the decision to fire cannot really be manually controlled.

 

I am guessing your ships' radars are off. Any radar guided weapons (and I am also guessing your ships are defended by radar guided SAMs in this instance) will not fire if the radars themselves are turned off.

 

I should add that you can control the engagement range under 'Settings/Staff Options/AAW Auto Fire Range'.

 

By manipulating the sensors (radars), you can also exercise some degree of control over which ship in your formation might engage the target. For example, you might want only the nearest ship to engage, and therefore would energize only its radars.

I am guessing your ships' radars are off. Any radar guided weapons (and I am also guessing your ships are defended by radar guided SAMs in this instance) will not fire if the radars themselves are turned off.

I have the same trouble, both with my surface ships and with my bases and SAM/AAA... that is, they seldom seem to fire, or fire very minimally/ineffectively, when it seems that they should be engaging enemy aircraft. (Note: This effect seems to be true mainly against enemy aircraft; while against enemy missles, there seems to be more automatic response). The bases are always radiating, and AFAIK, the surface groups are fully radiating as well, in these cases.

 

I should add that you can control the engagement range under 'Settings/Staff Options/AAW Auto Fire Range'.

What effect should I see from this? (When I've tried it before, it did not seem to affect the amount of AA fire - which is what's really needed, I think). And setting to longer range usually just results less probability of hits.

 

By manipulating the sensors (radars), you can also exercise some degree of control over which ship in your formation might engage the target. For example, you might want only the nearest ship to engage, and therefore would energize only its radars.

Please clarify: How can I control individual units' radar activity independently? (This would be really handy in some cases!)

I have the same trouble, both with my surface ships and with my bases and SAM/AAA... that is, they seldom seem to fire, or fire very minimally/ineffectively, when it seems that they should be engaging enemy aircraft. (Note: This effect seems to be true mainly against enemy aircraft; while against enemy missles, there seems to be more automatic response). The bases are always radiating, and AFAIK, the surface groups are fully radiating as well, in these cases.

 

You can turn off installation (base) radars as well as that of any ships under your control.

 

What effect should I see from this? (When I've tried it before, it did not seem to affect the amount of AA fire - which is what's really needed, I think). And setting to longer range usually just results less probability of hits.

 

'AAW Auto Fire Range' does not affect quantity of fire. There's a separate setting (in the same place) for that.

 

You will notice that enemy air defenses, for example, will not engage your aircraft the minute you enter their engagement envelope (you can see that envelope if you have the proper range circles enabled). Rather, they tend to engage you only when you stray into the 'no escape' zone, that is, the range at which you cannot escape their max engagement range at your current speed. This is why you can often skirt the outer edges of enemy SAM networks, inside their range circles, without necessarily prompting lethal response.

 

Please clarify: How can I control individual units' radar activity independently? (This would be really handy in some cases!)

 

By clicking on the particular unit (ship) in the Unit Map, and then hitting the 'Sensors' at the top of your screen. You can light up the radars of only one, or several, of the ships in your formation.

Firstly, all surface to air engagements are indeed handled automatically. Something most of us would like to modify eventually, but for now the decision to fire cannot really be manually controlled.

 

That is the problem okey,why is this implemented?? any chance someone will fix this anytime soon in a update?

Firstly, all surface to air engagements are indeed handled automatically. Something most of us would like to modify eventually, but for now the decision to fire cannot really be manually controlled.

 

That is the problem okey,why is this implemented?? any chance someone will fix this anytime soon in a update?

 

My opinion is that the AI needs to be smarter before the player is given micro-management of SAMs capabilities. Of course I question whether the player should ever have the capability to micro-manage air defenses. There is no chance surface to air engagements will be made manual in the next 3 months (and unlikely in the foreseeable future).

I have the same trouble, both with my surface ships and with my bases and SAM/AAA... that is, they seldom seem to fire, or fire very minimally/ineffectively, when it seems that they should be engaging enemy aircraft. (Note: This effect seems to be true mainly against enemy aircraft; while against enemy missles, there seems to be more automatic response). The bases are always radiating, and AFAIK, the surface groups are fully radiating as well, in these cases.

 

You can turn off installation (base) radars as well as that of any ships under your control.

Understood, but the point I was trying to make is that all of the player-side radars are active in these cases (unless they get turned off automatically by some means that I'm unaware of). Anyway, the fact that the player's AA defenses seem "sluggish" at best doesn't seem to be due to lack of radar in these cases.

 

What effect should I see from this? (When I've tried it before, it did not seem to affect the amount of AA fire - which is what's really needed, I think). And setting to longer range usually just results less probability of hits.

 

'AAW Auto Fire Range' does not affect quantity of fire. There's a separate setting (in the same place) for that.

Also understood... but I thought what you were saying earlier was that the range setting was supposed to affect the amount of AA response, as well.

 

My assumption was that the rate and range settings affect either both sides or else only the player's side... but in my expeience, I don't see much of any difference in the response of the player's side AD due to changes in these settings, so I'm a bit puzzled as to how best to adjust them.

 

You will notice that enemy air defenses, for example, will not engage your aircraft the minute you enter their engagement envelope (you can see that envelope if you have the proper range circles enabled). Rather, they tend to engage you only when you stray into the 'no escape' zone, that is, the range at which you cannot escape their max engagement range at your current speed. This is why you can often skirt the outer edges of enemy SAM networks, inside their range circles, without necessarily prompting lethal response.

In my experience, flying anywhere within the AD range circle of an enemy unit will result in the death of the trespasser. The only exceptions that I have seen are when very fast player's aircraft venture no more than about 10% of the way into the SAM range circle, then execute a "turn and burn" before any SAMs launch. Otherwise, the aircraft are toast. The most frustrating aspect is when player's air groups are "flirting" with the edge of the enemy SAM range circle, and they spontaneously "blow up" - even though they have remained slightly beyond the range circle AND no SAMs have been detected. It's a "What the h...?" situation.

 

Please clarify: How can I control individual units' radar activity independently? (This would be really handy in some cases!)

 

By clicking on the particular unit (ship) in the Unit Map, and then hitting the 'Sensors' at the top of your screen. You can light up the radars of only one, or several, of the ships in your formation.

 

Um... all buttons below the menu bar are either removed or disabled ("grayed out") when I go to the Unit Map - so I'm not with you here. Anyway, if it is possible to manipulate the radar settings of the player's individual units, is it possible that they are actually remaining off even when the Group's radar settings are turned on? Many times, it seems that certain units in the player's surface formations totally ignore incoming missiles (while other, more distant, units in the formation may fire SAMs at the incoming missiles). I always wondered why this is the case... so if individual radars can get turned off without my knowledge, then maybe lack of radar does explain this. The question then becomes why these units' radars turn off - since I'm not controlling them myself. And I still don't get why the player's side will -sort of- engage incoming missiles, yet it almost totally ignores any encroaching enemy aircraft.

Understood, but the point I was trying to make is that all of the player-side radars are active in these cases (unless they get turned off automatically by some means that I'm unaware of). Anyway, the fact that the player's AA defenses seem "sluggish" at best doesn't seem to be due to lack of radar in these cases.

 

If the player's radars are active, its because you want them that way. They're under your control.

 

Also understood... but I thought what you were saying earlier was that the range setting was supposed to affect the amount of AA response, as well.

 

Nope. I said only that it affected engagement range.

 

In my experience, flying anywhere within the AD range circle of an enemy unit will result in the death of the trespasser. The only exceptions that I have seen are when very fast player's aircraft venture no more than about 10% of the way into the SAM range circle, then execute a "turn and burn" before any SAMs launch. Otherwise, the aircraft are toast. The most frustrating aspect is when player's air groups are "flirting" with the edge of the enemy SAM range circle, and they spontaneously "blow up" - even though they have remained slightly beyond the range circle AND no SAMs have been detected. It's a "What the h..." situation.

 

You're the only player I know whose aircraft are subject to spontaneous combustion, or perhaps its alien abduction. Sorry, but that's the only explanation I can offer to your myriad predicaments.

 

By clicking on the particular unit (ship) in the Unit Map, and then hitting the 'Sensors' at the top of your screen. You can light up the radars of only one, or several, of the ships in your formation.

 

Um... all buttons below the menu bar are either removed or disabled ("grayed out") when I go to the Unit Map - so I'm not with you here.

 

Read what I said above again. Click on the ships themselves, then the 'Sensors' button at the top.

 

Anyway, if it is possible to manipulate the radar settings of the player's individual units, is it possible that they are actually remaining off even when the Group's radar settings are turned on? Many times, it seems that certain units in the player's surface formations totally ignore incoming missiles (while other, more distant, units in the formation may fire SAMs at the incoming missiles). I always wondered why this is the case... so if individual radars can get turned off without my knowledge, then maybe lack of radar does explain this. The question then becomes why these units' radars turn off - since I'm not controlling them myself. And I still don't get why the player's side will -sort of- engage incoming missiles, yet they almost totally ignore any encroaching enemy aircraft.

 

Group settings affect the entire group. If an individual ship's radars are off, its because you set them that way. If you want the radars to be all on again, set the group settings once more. Incoming missile engagements are handled according to their geometry (what ships they are closer to, what SAMs those ships have, etc). (Tony would have a more 'code friendly' explanation). If your ship has only radar guided SAMs, and its radars are off, there will be no engagement by those SAMs.

Firstly, all surface to air engagements are indeed handled automatically. Something most of us would like to modify eventually, but for now the decision to fire cannot really be manually controlled.

 

That is the problem okey,why is this implemented?? any chance someone will fix this anytime soon in a update?

 

My opinion is that the AI needs to be smarter before the player is given micro-management of SAMs capabilities. Of course I question whether the player should ever have the capability to micro-manage air defenses. There is no chance surface to air engagements will be made manual in the next 3 months (and unlikely in the foreseeable future).

 

Tell me why should the player not have the option to micro manage the air defenses??

I think that the option is more realistic and will have more game value..

In harpoon CE i cant engage hostile air units while they're in my engagement envelope.When i order a unit to attack air units within range i get the message "surface to air attacks air handled automatically "

i never understood why this is not possible,sometimes red fighter planes fly really close to my ships and the ai never fires a shot!!

 

Can someone exlpain this to me?

 

 

In addition to the other replies posted here, I have sometimes noticed that the AI will not take a shot at any aircraft that do not directly threaten that group. For example, if you have a group which contains nothing but an Arleigh Burke DDG with no helicopters, and an Su-35 with an air-to-air loadout flies through the heart of the Burke's SM2 engagement envelope, the AI declines to shoot, even if it has a perfect radar lock on the fighter, because the fighter is not a threat to the ship. While I can understand the logic, there are moments when it can be quite annoying ...

Anyway, if it is possible to manipulate the radar settings of the player's individual units, is it possible that they are actually remaining off even when the Group's radar settings are turned on? Many times, it seems that certain units in the player's surface formations totally ignore incoming missiles (while other, more distant, units in the formation may fire SAMs at the incoming missiles). I always wondered why this is the case... so if individual radars can get turned off without my knowledge, then maybe lack of radar does explain this. The question then becomes why these units' radars turn off - since I'm not controlling them myself. And I still don't get why the player's side will -sort of- engage incoming missiles, yet they almost totally ignore any encroaching enemy aircraft.

 

Group settings affect the entire group. If an individual ship's radars are off, its because you set them that way. If you want the radars to be all on again, set the group settings once more. Incoming missile engagements are handled according to their geometry (what ships they are closer to, what SAMs those ships have, etc). (Tony would have a more 'code friendly' explanation). If your ship has only radar guided SAMs, and its radars are off, there will be no engagement by those SAMs.

 

IIRC, someone (Tony?) once posted that the game handles SAM engagements by looking at the incoming threat, deciding how many SAMs are required to meet it, and then going through the units in the group in order until it can meet that number of launches. So for example, you have a group where unit #1 is a Nimitz CVN, #2 is a Tico CG, #3 is a Burke DDG, and #4 is a Perry FFG. There is a group of 4 ASMs targeted on the Perry. The AI decides it needs 8 SAMs to meet the threat, and checks each ship in turn. Ship #1, the CVN, has no missiles with the necessary range, so the next unit is checked. Ship #2, the CG, has the necessary missiles, but its radar is down, so it can't launch, so the next unit is checked. Ship #3, the DDG, also has the necessary missiles, and a live radar. It has sufficient rate of fire to launch all 8 of the missiles the AI deems necessary, so it does so. Because there are already enough missiles launched to meet the threat, the FFG is never called upon to launch, even though it is the target. Unfortunately, this sometimes means that the ASMs will reach the FFG before the SAMs can reach the ASMs ...

Understood, but the point I was trying to make is that all of the player-side radars are active in these cases (unless they get turned off automatically by some means that I'm unaware of). Anyway, the fact that the player's AA defenses seem "sluggish" at best doesn't seem to be due to lack of radar in these cases.

 

If the player's radars are active, its because you want them that way. They're under your control.

And I reiterate: In the situations that I was describing, to the best of my knowledge, all player's radars were active - because I had set all of the Group's radars active, and I was not able to manipulate the individual units' radars, and none of the units had suffered damage (that might have caused its radars to be inoperative).

 

In my experience, flying anywhere within the AD range circle of an enemy unit will result in the death of the trespasser. The only exceptions that I have seen are when very fast player's aircraft venture no more than about 10% of the way into the SAM range circle, then execute a "turn and burn" before any SAMs launch. Otherwise, the aircraft are toast. The most frustrating aspect is when player's air groups are "flirting" with the edge of the enemy SAM range circle, and they spontaneously "blow up" - even though they have remained slightly beyond the range circle AND no SAMs have been detected. It's a "What the h..." situation.

 

You're the only player I know whose aircraft are subject to spontaneous combustion, or perhaps its alien abduction. Sorry, but that's the only explanation I can offer to your myriad predicaments.

Then you must be disregarding other players' reports of similar behavior - including some reported in this very thread.

I've already offered elsewhere my best guesses as to probable causes of the behaviors that are (apparently) limited to my installation, but those guesses were categorically denied, so....?

 

By clicking on the particular unit (ship) in the Unit Map, and then hitting the 'Sensors' at the top of your screen. You can light up the radars of only one, or several, of the ships in your formation.

 

Um... all buttons below the menu bar are either removed or disabled ("grayed out") when I go to the Unit Map - so I'm not with you here.

 

Read what I said above again. Click on the ships themselves, then the 'Sensors' button at the top.

Sorry; re-reading the post has no magical effect on the actual behavior on my game.

 

Anyway, if it is possible to manipulate the radar settings of the player's individual units, is it possible that they are actually remaining off even when the Group's radar settings are turned on? Many times, it seems that certain units in the player's surface formations totally ignore incoming missiles (while other, more distant, units in the formation may fire SAMs at the incoming missiles). I always wondered why this is the case... so if individual radars can get turned off without my knowledge, then maybe lack of radar does explain this. The question then becomes why these units' radars turn off - since I'm not controlling them myself. And I still don't get why the player's side will -sort of- engage incoming missiles, yet they almost totally ignore any encroaching enemy aircraft.

 

Group settings affect the entire group. If an individual ship's radars are off, its because you set them that way. If you want the radars to be all on again, set the group settings once more. Incoming missile engagements are handled according to their geometry (what ships they are closer to, what SAMs those ships have, etc). (Tony would have a more 'code friendly' explanation). If your ship has only radar guided SAMs, and its radars are off, there will be no engagement by those SAMs.

As I've been trying to point out, to the best of my knowledge, all radars are on in these cases that I described. The only way that I can see it could be otherwise is if this ability to set individual units' radars is somehow coming into play of its own accord - because before today, I was not even aware of the ability to manipulate individual units' radars, and so I have not been turning them off explicitly.

And I reiterate: In the situations that I was describing, to the best of my knowledge, all player's radars were active - because I had set all of the Group's radars active, and I was not able to manipulate the individual units' radars, and none of the units had suffered damage (that might have caused its radars to be inoperative) ... Sorry; re-reading the post has no magical effect on the actual behavior on my game.

 

I'm trying to be very patient with your gripes, JoeK. So let's do it again. To control an individual ship's sensors:

 

1. Make sure you've selected the ship formation (group) in the Group Map.

2. Click on the individual ship in the Unit Map. That's right, select the ship on the map.

3. Look at the top of your screen. Look for the 'Sensors' button. It should be right next to time compression.

4. Click the 'Sensors' button. It should not be grayed out.

5. You will get a pop up window that says 'Set Unit Sensors'.

6. Play with the sensor settings as desired.

7. Repeat as necessary.

 

If anyone has difficulty with these instructions, please let me know. JoeK, if after following these instructions, you are still having issues, please start a separate thread and we will pick the process apart piece by piece in painstaking detail. Yes, I'm willing to do that.

 

Then you must be disregarding other players' reports of similar behavior - including some reported in this very thread. I've already offered elsewhere my best guesses as to probable causes of the behaviors that are (apparently) limited to my installation, but those guesses were categorically denied, so....?

 

This is where my patience starts to run real thin. No one else is reporting anything like you have reported. Not a single, solitary soul. After much prodding, you provided savegames that supposedly showed the problems you were reporting. We tried them. They didn't show anything like what you were reporting.

 

Furthermore, we are not disregarding anyone's reports of problems. Quite the opposite, and I take exception to your saying so. I expect you are also very alone in this respect. Our track record in helping folks with HCE issues - and conquering problems wherever possible or feasible - speaks for itself.

 

Let me lay this out for you quite clearly. We welcome and invite bug reports. We request bug reports. There's a whole forum here dedicated to our efforts to have people report issues, try beta updates in an effort to find solutions, and even suggest ways to improve and advance this game.

 

If you want to help do that in a sensible fashion that doesn't antagonize and frustrate those efforts, that's great. If you cannot, please don't hang around here. I'd suggest you go over to Matrix and rant away about all of your HCE issues there, but apparently you believe there's some conspiracy against you over there too.

Could it be that Joe is mixing up the unit and the group windows inadvertently?

Could it be that Joe is mixing up the unit and the group windows inadvertently?

 

Anything's possible, but seeing as they are labeled 'Group' and 'Unit', I certainly hope not. (Or maybe I do, whatever works to solve another of his numerous issues, would be great).