Ready 5

[Grumble]

I wish there would be an option for actual 5 minutes Ready 5 time.

 

Must have been discussed here somewhere but search comes up empty, so,

why is the Ready 5 time 30 seconds actually?

 

I hardly ever use AAW formation air patrols (or ASuW for that matter) these days,

it's manual patrols or nothing. (When there is AEW coverage available.)

All but the most severe popup threats can be dealt with manual patrols that can get airborne in 30 seconds.

I would love the game to be (optionally) realistic in this and "force" me to not ignore formation patrols.

 

[broncepulido]

Must have been discussed here somewhere but search comes up empty, so,

why is the Ready 5 time 30 seconds actually?

I was thinking all these years the Ready 5 were 5 seconds! But slowed because some bug to 30 seconds!

[private]

Grumble, I have always played with manually organized and set up patrols wherever possible.

 

I would like to have the 'Ready 5' option as well, though I expect it would be better packaged in a general overhaul of how aircraft ready times are calculated and organized.

[Grumble]

Grumble, I have always played with manually organized and set up patrols wherever possible.

Yes, me too.

 

Story: Just last month, playing a NACV scenario a flock of AS-15s were picked up on radar bearing down on one of my dispersement airfields, range 50nm. I leisurely launched a pair of F15s and dispatched them, no sweat. Then started to think that it was too easy, I was completely unprepared, I had no fighters in the air only an AEW, which I expected to detect bombers before launch, except I failed to check the DB that the Kents have an 1000nm range and low RCS+TF. I was unworthy of the 30 seconds launch time.

 

I would like to have the 'Ready 5' option as well, though I expect it would be better packaged in a general overhaul of how aircraft ready times are calculated and organized.

I thought to post this just on it's own as this might only require a change of a constant in the code, yet it could have far fetching consequences, like shaping up old brass getting careless.

 

Simplest option could be just to compile an alternate build, like 2014.018b with 300 in place 30.

Or add a command line option for beta testers.

Or Staff option, but that is already GUI change which is more effort.

 

Also, I realize I'm assuming here that the 30 seconds "launch time",

the time it takes for the first a/c to takeoff,

is a different constant from the 30 seconds of the time between consecutive takeoffs

and the 30 seconds between landings.

If these 30 seconds are all the "same" 30, then it's not that simple.

I have a 300,30,30,.. takeoff and 30,30,... landing sequence in mind

[TonyE]

Keep going guys. I'd like to hear what you'd really like and work back to something manageable from there, possibly building in structure for later advancement toward what you really want.

[Grumble]

It took some time but I accepted that I need to tailor my wishes to suite the possibilities.
I'm off "structures" these days, happy with just "patches". But...no, no, don't tempt me

I quite like the simple idea of a ready5 patch, feels light and fun. So that's just that, no structure.
As said, the 5 minutes I have on mind is the time it takes to start launching a group, rest of the group follows in 30 seconds intervals as now.

Few more shots of takoff and landing "patches":

ready30sec (or ready60sec) for patrol on the ground.
This would to model that units "allocated" to active patrols are in state of increased alertness and can be launched sooner, when rested and in ready state.

How to rest them??

Well, I'm sure everyone allocates maximum two shifts to a formation air patrol. You want 2 fighters on AAW patrol, you only "allocate" 4 to the patrol, I mean you calculate with 4. But this would "kill" the crews and planes fast, you need at least 3 shifts.

This patch would reward allocating properly 3 shifts to an air patrol, 1 in the air, 1 resting, 1 on the ready, by allowing to launch the ready shift in 30secs instead of 5mins.

How to do this easy?

On launching a plane (or group) manually the GE would check

if there are formation patrols setup for the base with the same loadout

and

if there are at least twice as many planes with the same loadout on the ground as on patrol.

and

if the launching group is smaller than the number of patrolling planes

then it can start launching in 30secs, otherwise it's 5mins.

Not perfect but good enough for a patch.

 

Cat-Shots

Allow carriers to operate as 1 runway for landing and 1 for each catapult for takeoffs (or 2 if more than 1 catapult).

 

Vertrep

Allow shorter launch time for rotary aircraft, like 5mins for fixed and 2mins for rotary.

 

Landing and takeoff queues.

If not actual queues then modify land/launch time if there are other groups already landing/launching.

 

Longer land/launch times for damaged bases.

Also, +25% damage on a 4 runway base means 3 runways left, +50% 2, ...

E.g. at +25% damage 3 planes can take off and it takes 7 minutes to launch.

 

Slight digress:

Longer ready times for ground loadouts. like 2-3hours, or more?

[broncepulido]

About realistic ready times, I think is very difficult to set them.

One of my long time ideas was 30 minutes more reading time for each engine extra in an aircraft (as simple example, one F-16 can have a very simple ready time of 1 hour, one F-15 (with two engines) 1,5 hours, one KC-135 or one P-2H Neptune (both with four engines) 3 hours, ideally a B-52 as consequence (with eight engines) 4,5 hours).

 

Perhaps some modulation on each extra engine type above the first engine on the aircraft (but probably also as consequence also in the first/main engine of the aircraft), perhaps (I've edited the post and refined the idea, my last conclusions are these reflected down here):

 

Examples:

 

Each turbofan=15 minutes.

F-16/F-35/Mirage 2000: 1x15=15 minutes.

F-15/F-22/Su-27: 2x15=30 minutes.

KC-135R/B-1A/B-2A: 4x15=60 minutes/1 hour.

An-225 Myra: 6x15=90 minutes/1,5 hours.

B-52H: 8x15=120 minutes/2 hours.

 

Each turboshaft/turboprop/plain jet engine=30 minutes,

F-104/Mirage F1/AH-1S/Alouette III: 30 minutes

F-4/Yak-25/Ar-234/B-66/Breguet Atlantic/An-26: 2x30=60 minutes.

AH-1J/CH-53D: 2x30=60 minutes.

CH-53E/EH101 Merlin: 3x30=90 minutes/1,5 hours.

KC-135A/Avro Vulcan/C-130 Hercules: 4x30=120 minutes/2 hours.

B-47 Stratojet: 6x30=180 minutes/3 hours.

B-52D: 8x30=240 minutes/4 hours.

 

 

Each alternative-piston engine=45 minutes.

P-51D Mustang/H-47 Sioux: 45 minutes.

B-26 Invader/C-47/CH-37 Mojave: 2x45=90 minutes/1,5 hours.

B-17 Flying Fortress/Shackleton: 4x45=180 minutes/3 hours.

B-36B: 6x45=270 minutes/4,5 hours.

 

Some mixed engines planes:

AJ-1 Savage: 2x45=90 minutes (piston) + 1x30=30 minutes (jet) = 120 minutes/2 hours.

P-2H Neptune: 2x45=90 minutes (piston) + 2x30=60 minutes (jet) = 150 minutes/2,5 hours.

Shackleton MR.3 phase 3: 4x45=180 minutes (piston) + 2x30=60 minutes (jet) = 240 minutes/4 hours.

B-36J: 6x45=270 minutes (piston) + 4x30=120 minutes (jet) = 390 minutes/6,5 hours.

 

 

 

But I found this, in peacetime operation the reading time of B-52 was LONGER than in the 1991 Gulf War!:

B-52 peacetime pre-Desert Storm readying time: 5,5 hours

B-52 Desert Storm readying: 1,5 hours

(from Ospreys "B-52 Units in Operation Desert Storm", page 69)

[private]

This may sound strange, but the more I play CMANO, the more similarities I am seeing with how HCE plays in a general sense.

 

The biggest differences (in broad terms) are the ready times and the magazines. The rest is mostly detail.

 

I think if we were able to adopt varied ready times, we could get most of the way there in terms of what is offered by both ready times and magazines.

[eeustice]

I only use formation patrols for ASW and AEW patrols. I form up my own groups for CAP and launch a replacement CAP when the fuel gets to 50%. As for varied redy times it will take some time to get used to after all the years of playing the way things are now. The varied times do make more sense depending on the size of the AC.

Since carriers were built with the angled flight deck decks allowing take of and landings at the same time and have 4 catapults you could have a Ready5 sitting on the angled flight until you need it for landing. If a large strike is being launched it would be possible to launch 2 planes from a CV at the same time. One from the Bow and one from the angled.

[TonyE]

I have no real-world experience of knowledge to apply. My thoughts are more broad as a result.

 

Factors influencing ready times (in no particular order):

* Weather - Readying during a Typhoon, whether on a ship or land will be slow.

* Installation damage - a severely damaged airbase or carrier will be less efficient.

* Workload - If my re-arm crew has been working non-stop for 24 hours they are probably going to slow down.

* Type of aircraft

* Aircraft workload - if it has flown 30% of the last 72 hours the maintenance is probably going to catch up with you and slow down the readying process.

* Type of ordnance

* Quantity of ordnance

* National affiliation? - Always a tough one I know, are the Israeli's better than the Americans at re-arming F-15s, etc.

 

So I might imagine each aircraft type has a base re-arm rating that indicates how easy it is to re-arm. That is modified by each of the other modifiers to come up with a ready-time.

 

As usual that is the easy part compared to teaching the AI how to manage its planes but that doesn't mean we shouldn't make changes.

[private]

Definitely that's the kind of stuff that would come into play, though I expect any model we would be able to implement is going to be significantly less complex.

[broncepulido]

I think simpy to do customizable and adjustable to the player ideas the ready time for each loadout in the DBs (this as result, I fear it should be of very difficult implementation both in DB editor and GE).

About the 5 ready time I think could be the same in some loadouts, as the "Four minute warning" scenario (perhaps 4 minute for this scenario for V-Bombers with nuclear loadouts at the scenario start). If not Grumble's ideas and time values are correct for me.

[broncepulido]

Casually I re-read in the August 2014 issue of Air Forces Monthly (with the B-52 in Fairford) a ground crew chief states the B-52 loadout time is from 30 minutes to 2 hours, in function of the warload.

[private]

I think if we were able to adopt varied ready times, we could get most of the way there in terms of what is offered by both ready times and magazines.

 

And what I mean here is that by allowing the scenario editor to vary ready times, there is potential to effectively limit magazines.

[broncepulido]

Yeah, it's clear Brad, I was thinking also in similar lines, more factible if the scenario is very time limited, as two days maximum or so.