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File - HCCW-140314 (1950-75 era)

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About the Turkish Agusta-Bell 204AS, I was thinking it was the same model as the Italian or Spanish ones ("AS" stands for "anti-sommergibili"?), with AQS-13B sonar and APN-195 radar, as states Jane's All the World's Aircrafts 1975-1976, but I'm not sure. But now I read in Jane's Fighting Ships 1980-1981 the three Turkish Navy ones are designated as 204B, not as 204AS, probably simpler transport/assault/attack helicopters.

One of the three helos, TCB-33 (c/n 3238), is preserved at the Turkish naval museum at Golcuk, reportedly as AB.204AS. You will also sometimes see AB.204ASW, but I don't have any info about an ASW role.

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  • Because I know you will write scenarios with these (and that is the single-most important factor at play here), I will make an exception and include these post 1975, (in)famous platforms.

  • All this work on the HCCW database makes a guy want to watch The Bridges at Toko-Ri.

  • Heh, yes, definitely an error there. I will look at it and you can expect a fix in the next version.

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At least on this moment the DB in HCDB and HCCW (for not mention WWII) is for far more comprehensive than in Command.

  • 3 weeks later...

Some planes of very easy modelling:

 

Pakistan:

J-6 Farmer, Pakistan, with 2xAIM-9B (missile added from November 1971).

 

India:

MiG-21F-13 Fishbed-C, 10 planes employed by India from April 1963.

 

MiG-21PF Fishbed-D, 2 planes employed by India from 1964, destroyed in the 1964 war.

 

MiG-21FL Fishbed-E/Type 77 (1966?+), RP-21M/R2L radar, some 54 build in USSR and 205 in India. Also some 50 employed by Egypt from 1965, but with the ventral gun pack received after the Six Days War. (very similar to Polish MiG-21PFM).

 

Su-7BKM Fitter-A (1968+).

 

Hunter Mk.56 (1957?-1996). Based on the Hunter F.6, 160 built. Brake parachute added and the provision to carry 500 lb (227 kg) bombs, radio and avionics changes. The FGA.56A was based on the Hunter FGA.9.

Mystere IVA (1957-1973)

Ouragan/Toofani (1953-1967)

Generic:

 

Mobile Radars (P-35 Saturn/Bar Lock/P-30 at least).

 

ELINT Station

Also as generic (or not), tanks, AFVs, trucks, SUVs and similar ground stuff.

  • 3 weeks later...
  • Author

Some planes of very easy modelling:

 

Pakistan:

J-6 Farmer, Pakistan, with 2xAIM-9B (missile added from November 1971).

Added the loadout option to the existing F-6 entry.

 

India:

MiG-21F-13 Fishbed-C, 10 planes employed by India from April 1963.

Got it, though the details seem to vary.

 

MiG-21PF Fishbed-D, 2 planes employed by India from 1964, destroyed in the 1964 war.

Source(s)?

 

MiG-21FL Fishbed-E/Type 77 (1966?+)

Got, it but again details vary. Source on the 'Fishbed E' designation, for example?

 

Su-7BKM Fitter-A (1968+).

Acknowledged, but as the Su-7BMK.

Ok, I'm not at home and without many sources but I will try to do some answers in short.

 

The Su-7BMK question was a typo.

 

The two MiG-21PF were pattern for the production MiG-21FL, as stated here in the German Wiki MiG-21 entry "export/Indien" (my originary sources were other, books I think. And destroyed in the 1965 War, not 1964!):

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikojan-Gurewitsch_MiG-21#Export

 

In the same entry is some mention about the MiG-21F-13 employed by India (6 delivered 1963, 4 delivered 1964, for a grand total of 48).

 

About the Fishbed-E designation, I will do some research, perhaps was only my informed guess some years ago ...

Perousing in "Famous Russian Aircraft: MiG-21" (Yefim Gordon and Keith Dexter, with Komissariov, Ian Allan 2008):

 

MiG-21PF/SPS and variants with small área tail are Fishbed-D.

 

MiG-21SPS and variants with wide chord and area tail are Fishbed-F.

 

MiG-21FL (idelye 77) were the first types with wide chord area, before the MiG-21SPS wide chord, I suppose were designated Fisbhed-E, but I will do more research ...

in the same book, page 580, are mentioned the two MiG-21PF Fishbed-D (Izdeliye 76A) delivered to India in late 1964 with the second batch of MiG-21F-13. Both were destroyed by straffing F-86 in Pathankot AB on 6 September 1965. The MiG-21FL (Izdeliye 77) was an improved variant.

in the same book, page 580, are mentioned the two MiG-21PF Fishbed-D (Izdeliye 76A) delivered to India in late 1964 with the second batch of MiG-21F-13. Both were destroyed by straffing F-86 in Pathankot AB on 6 September 1965. The MiG-21FL (Izdeliye 77) was an improved variant.

Another book, "MiG aircraft from 1937", Bill Gunston and Yefim Gordon, Putnam 1998:

Page 162, about the MiG-21FL (Izdeliye 77), is stated as a versión of MiG-21PFM, and his ASCC designation stated clearly as Fishbed-E.

And those versions explained as::

Fishbed-E: wide chord tail.

Fishbed-F: wide chord tail and new canopy (not the old forward hinged wind-break canopy).

I see the F-84F Thunderstreak needs greater range.

 

Historically the French F-84F (very probably powered by W-7 engines) based in Lod/Ben Gurion/Tel Aviv were capable to reach and strike the Luxor Air Base (and his resident Il-28 Beagle) and of deep escort missions on Egypt : http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_256.shtml

 

That distance Lod/Luxor is some 398 nm, at least 800 nm for a round trip. And the F-84F presente in the DB have a ground attack range limited to 501 nm.

 

Also we can count with the Standard Aircraft Characteristics official data of most American types present in http://www.alternatewars.com/SAC/SAC.htm

http://www.alternatewars.com/SAC/F-84F_Thunderstreak_(W-3_Engine)_SAC_-_7_March_1957.pdf

http://www.alternatewars.com/SAC/F-84F_Thunderstreak_(W-7_Engine)_SAC_-_2_September_1958.pdf

 

Some ranges from the SAC charts (without inflight refuelling):

F-84F (W-3 engine):

Basic mission 1666 nm (3,56 hours at 468 knots) + some 156 nm from 20 minutes reserve = 1822 nm (with gun ammo and 2x450 USG drop tanks)

Ground attack 878 nm (2 hours at 439 knots) + some 219 nm from 10 minutes loiter and 20 minutes reserve = 1097 nm (with gun ammo, 2x1000 lb bombs, 4x5" rockets and 2x450 USG drop tanks)

 

F-84F (W-7 engine):

Basic mission 1656 nm (3,54 hours at 468 knots) + some 156 nm from 20 minutes reserve = 1812 nm (with gun ammo and 2x450 USG drop tanks)

Ground attack 846 nm (1.94 hours at 436 knots) + some 218 nm from 10 minutes loiter and 20 minutes reserve = 1064 nm (with gun ammo, 2x1000 lb bombs, 4x5" rockets and 2x450 USG drop tanks)

 

And the range with a 1660 lb weight Mk 7 Thor nuke should be also increased, probably to near 1012 nm (with 1xMk7 and 3x230 USG drop tanks).

  • 2 weeks later...

Don't forget the Avenger variants, please, all of them very useful (ASW, AEW, Ferret/Elint/ESM):

 

TBM-3E (Attack, 1945-1960)

TBM-3Q (Ferret/Elint missions, with ESM, 1946-1954)

TBM-3S (ASW, 1946-1960)

TBM-3W (AEW with APS-20A/C, 1946-1960)

Avenger AS.3M (ASW, Canada 1954-1960)

  • Author

Don't forget the Avenger variants, please, all of them very useful (ASW, AEW, Ferret/Elint/ESM):

 

TBM-3E (Attack, 1945-1960)

TBM-3Q (Ferret/Elint missions, with ESM, 1946-1954)

TBM-3S (ASW, 1946-1960)

TBM-3W (AEW with APS-20A/C, 1946-1960)

Avenger AS.3M (ASW, Canada 1954-1960)

 

Acknowledged.

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