IA submarines don't launch Anti Ship Missiles

[broncepulido]

5 hours ago, donaldseadog said:

I'm reading this on my tablet while having lunch. I'm wondering would the subs actions be different if part of a group including surface combatants with suitable range missile. 

Incredible, great intuition Don!!!

At the first attempt in the test scenario, including an useless Albanese minesweeper in each Blue submarine group, the submarines lauch instantly missiles against the Red Merchants, as detected by the AWACS.

[broncepulido]

Same applied to the Red side, see here the modified test scenario:

2024-08 TEST RED SUB LAUNCHED AShM WITH SHIP.zip

[donaldseadog]

I didn't get as far as you Enrique. I'd seen a sub fire at about the range of its torpedo so wondered if it was somehow ignoring coming into missile range before deciding what to fire.

I will post a bit more tonight, (I'm at breakfast on tablet today) but saw that maybe subs aren't doing same 'plotting attack' that surface ships do. Its a code event (ENEMY_AI_EVENT) I don't understand much but it never seems to be attributed to subs (but does to surface ships) and relates to planning an attack (I think).

 

[donaldseadog]

On 8/28/2024 at 6:59 PM, broncepulido said:

Same applied to the Red side, see here the modified test scenario:

2024-08 TEST RED SUB LAUNCHED AShM WITH SHIP.zip 4 kB · 1 download

That certainly made a difference. The ENEMY_AI_EVENT is now occurring which might be a clue for Tony.

[donaldseadog]

On 8/26/2024 at 11:23 PM, TonyE said:

Thank you for the writeup.  That performance is disappointing.  I'll have a look, eventually...

I'm wondering TonyE what should we do next. I'm guessing it relates to no ENEMY_AI_EVENT for the sub only group (I'm assuming there should be). Do you need the original test pruned down to a minimum number of platforms (eg one sub one surface target one awac) ?

And on the side, in the second test where Enrique has added a surface unit to each sub group, they fire a very expensive salvo of missiles at the defenceless merchant men. 

[TonyE]

So digging a little more, submarine groups do have almost entirely different AI than surface groups, hence the different behavior for the group with the tag along ship.  

Way back on Dec 29,2001 code was checked in sub_ai.c that should have limited submarines to the attack range of torpedoes carried by the sub when the code looked for valid weapons.  This replaced the previous code that could use Guns, Missiles, Torpedoes.  

For 2024.006 I've switched it back to that more permissive set of weaponry so that you guys can give it a whirl.  Still submarines should be limited to firing at 75% of the max range.

[TonyE]

I couldn't resist giving it a try, looks promising.  I should be able to get the build out in the next 24 hours for you to poke holes in it (or a bunch of ships).

[TonyE]

2024.006 posted.  My fear is that submarines will fire missiles at targets that aren't localized but I bet you can validate that isn't true @donaldseadog.

[donaldseadog]

On 9/5/2024 at 11:40 AM, TonyE said:

2024.006 posted.  My fear is that submarines will fire missiles at targets that aren't localized but I bet you can validate that isn't true @donaldseadog.

That should be easy to check.

Homework for tonight

(Update)

There are firings at units without a position (edited) but side is known and another unit of group has exact fix. I'll fiddle a bit more to try to see if they will fire as soon as any contact is made.

(Update2)

I'll fine tune my AIWindow tool to get more info on the contact the enemy sees, but indications are that the sub launches missile at units where no position (exact or uncertainty) is known, possibly only when in a group with a unit that is localised.

Edited September 6 by donaldseadog
updated info

[donaldseadog]

Progress is a bit slow. Here's the long story so far ...  I have the game halting when an attack is executed then I look at the contact quality (within my AIWindow tool).

I have a case where the player has a group that includes two ships, both ships have had missiles fired targeting them, one ship the enemy has an exact fix, one it has no location but knows its there (knows side). I Split the group and destroy the missile targeting the not localised ship. Now there is a group with one unit and enemy has exact fix, another group having one unit with no localisation. The original attacking sub fires again at the (new) group with localised unit but does not fire at the old group with only non localised unit. later the unit is localised and the sub fires.

My current best guess is that if a fix is known on at least one unit in a group the whole group (or perhaps all units of group that are known) will be fired on, but if no units are localised in the group then it won't fire.

I'll keep playing with it.

[donaldseadog]

@TonyE

I think I have something concrete. (if my export.dll game data collection is correct). I have two saved games (a couple secs apart) with a player surface group of two units, one goes from approx fix by enemy to exact while the second remains undetected or at least no detected location. Two enemy subs fire missiles at both units (including the non localised unit) and all missile appear to have targets (non are BOL).

I've attached here but do you want a new issue report?

 

 

SLSSMatNotKnownTarget.zip

[TonyE]

Please do create a new issue report.  My opinion is that we addressed the issue on this report successfully.  I think this issue of multiple units in the target group has been reported previously but since it is probably lost in the depths, a new one will help, especially since you have such a solid example.

 

Thank you!