donaldseadog Posted March 4, 2024 Report Posted March 4, 2024 Does anyone recall an 'issue' (maybe a long time back) regards ships attacking snorkeling subs? I vaguely remember something about it, and want to look to see if there might be problems with having ships being able to attack snorkeling subs with naval gunnery. I want to have snorkeling subs as a simulation of ukraine type semi submerged fast attack drones. Quote
TonyE Posted March 5, 2024 Report Posted March 5, 2024 I don't recall an issue but can provide some related information. Effects.c::FireGuns(...) only allows guns to fire against units >= SeaLevel where SeaLevel is the next altitude band above Snorkel. In other words, the code won't fire guns at Snorkeling submarines. That could be changed, I would imagine one would want a lower hit chance for a snorkeling submarine as compared to a surfaced sub. See H3 paper 4.2.3.2 Periscope Depth for a description of this depth. The base H3 paper rules do not accommodate gunfire vs. submarines. I did not check any of the addons nor the H4 nor H5 rules. 1 Quote
aviator Posted October 29, 2024 Report Posted October 29, 2024 Sorry to partially veer off the subject, but I just recalled a similar issue where air ASW assets would attack an force a submarine to surface, making it impossible to sink it, as it is now apparently a "surface" ship. Is this intended behaviour? Quote
TonyE Posted October 29, 2024 Report Posted October 29, 2024 2 hours ago, aviator said: Sorry to partially veer off the subject, but I just recalled a similar issue where air ASW assets would attack an force a submarine to surface, making it impossible to sink it, as it is now apparently a "surface" ship. Is this intended behaviour? It is likely expected but unintended behavior. The code that decides valid weapons for a given situation does not have the flexibility to consider every situation so sometimes it answers incorrectly. More than a decade ago I wrote comprehensive code but it was too slow so I scrapped it. That said, if you manage to catch a saved game, especially in a small or purpose-built test scenario, please post up the scenario and save for me to analyze. Quote
aviator Posted October 31, 2024 Report Posted October 31, 2024 On 10/29/2024 at 3:13 PM, TonyE said: That said, if you manage to catch a saved game, especially in a small or purpose-built test scenario, please post up the scenario and save for me to analyze. First attempt at recreating this did not produce the results I've observed earlier. I made a scenario where a P-3 damaged a Typhoon that subsequently surfaced. In this scenario Air ASW platforms were still able to fire torps on the surfaced sub. I'll keep trying to get an example savegame. 1 Quote
broncepulido Posted November 24, 2024 Report Posted November 24, 2024 On 3/5/2024 at 3:22 PM, TonyE said: I don't recall an issue but can provide some related information. Effects.c::FireGuns(...) only allows guns to fire against units >= SeaLevel where SeaLevel is the next altitude band above Snorkel. In other words, the code won't fire guns at Snorkeling submarines. That could be changed, I would imagine one would want a lower hit chance for a snorkeling submarine as compared to a surfaced sub. See H3 paper 4.2.3.2 Periscope Depth for a description of this depth. The base H3 paper rules do not accommodate gunfire vs. submarines. I did not check any of the addons nor the H4 nor H5 rules. I want clearly that gun capability (and submarines launching short range SAMs to ASW aircrafts!), but in the game engine anti-ship missiles are usually capables against surfaced submarines (in fact that was the Harpoon missile origin, to sunk surfaced Soviet SSGN type Echo before they launched their anti-ship missiles). 1 Quote
donaldseadog Posted November 30, 2024 Author Report Posted November 30, 2024 On 11/25/2024 at 1:55 AM, broncepulido said: I want clearly that gun capability (and submarines launching short range SAMs to ASW aircrafts!), I was thinking about the developing systems using semi-submerged drones, in HC I see a snorkeling sub as the closest sim. I recall some of the ukraine drones were being fitted with short range SAM for self protection. What weapons were the Russians using against the semi-sub drones? I guess if a genuine snorkeling sub there are differences to a sem-sub drone, as the drone would be vulnerable to a hit where most gunnery aimed at a sub (even at snorkel) would skip off water surface as would be at a low angle (unless the round hit the snorkel) Maybe a CIWS would be at a trajectory angle steep enough ? 1 Quote
broncepulido Posted December 3, 2024 Report Posted December 3, 2024 On 11/30/2024 at 3:08 AM, donaldseadog said: I was thinking about the developing systems using semi-submerged drones, in HC I see a snorkeling sub as the closest sim. I recall some of the ukraine drones were being fitted with short range SAM for self protection. What weapons were the Russians using against the semi-sub drones? I guess if a genuine snorkeling sub there are differences to a sem-sub drone, as the drone would be vulnerable to a hit where most gunnery aimed at a sub (even at snorkel) would skip off water surface as would be at a low angle (unless the round hit the snorkel) Maybe a CIWS would be at a trajectory angle steep enough ? I think not about the surface skip, historically even was some anti-submarine guns employed operationally, at short distances. In fact I was searching for historical ones I remember, but found this recent example: https://www.navylookout.com/the-kingfisher-gun-launched-anti-submarine-munition/ 1 Quote
broncepulido Posted December 3, 2024 Report Posted December 3, 2024 As historical example this 102mm one called "Shark", but I remember others WWI: http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WAMBR_ASW.php Edit: ok, I see the other examples in the same page, named "5" (12.7 cm), 7.5" (19 cm) and 11" (28 cm) Howitzers". Quote
CV32 Posted December 5, 2024 Report Posted December 5, 2024 On 11/29/2024 at 10:38 PM, donaldseadog said: I was thinking about the developing systems using semi-submerged drones, in HC I see a snorkeling sub as the closest sim. I recall some of the ukraine drones were being fitted with short range SAM for self protection. What weapons were the Russians using against the semi-sub drones? I guess if a genuine snorkeling sub there are differences to a sem-sub drone, as the drone would be vulnerable to a hit where most gunnery aimed at a sub (even at snorkel) would skip off water surface as would be at a low angle (unless the round hit the snorkel) Maybe a CIWS would be at a trajectory angle steep enough ? The Russians have been using almost exclusively gun fire to attack naval drones generally, including machine guns from helicopters and deck mounted aboard ship. 2 Quote
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