private Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 To take this scenario a little further along ... From the recent RIA Novosti news posted here: "The South American country [Venezuela] has been vigorously pursuing modernization of its naval fleet to counter a possible U.S. blockade of its oil fields and prepare for direct military confrontation with Washington .... He said the negotiations were focused on the procurement of the new Amur-class diesel submarines and Project 636 low-noise submarines with Club-S integrated missile systems. Meanwhile, Russia's popular Kommersant daily reported Thursday that Venezuela had approached Russia with a request to build nine diesel submarines, five of the Project 636 and four of the project 677 Amur." I am thinking of an American blockade scenario in which one or more US Navy surface ships (perhaps Burke and/or Perry) seek to oppose transit of one or more Venezuelan oil tankers before they reach a certain geographic line. The politically unacceptable potential of disaster from oil spill would necessitate actually boarding and taking over the tanker(s) rather than crippling or destroying them. The Americans could be prevented from conducting an airborne (helo) assault by the threat of MANPADS aboard the tanker(s) or a continuing air battle in the area. So, the US Navy would have to approach closely enough to either employ small boats with raiding parties aboard, and/or use carefully aimed gunfire. With the possibility of one or more Venezuelan Amur or Project 636 Kilo submarine(s) operating in close proximity to the tanker(s), the scenario arises ... The island of Isla de Margarita and the refineries around Puerto La Cruz in the northeast (as shown below) could potentially set the scene ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmaidhof Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Apparently Isla de Margarita is not represented in the plotter, however we could use the two facilities approximately located in Barcelona and Cumana. Unless perhaps Tony would be so gracious to place another image in the plotter. I could do a hand drawn rendering of the area based on, and at the scale of, the the UT Perry image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Hi Sounds like a good scenario, I'll play if there are any places available? I need to brush up on my geography. Venezuela isn't where i thought it was! I thought it was west coast Cheers Jon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Apparently Isla de Margarita is not represented in the plotter, however we could use the two facilities approximately located in Barcelona and Cumana. Unless perhaps Tony would be so gracious to place another image in the plotter. I could do a hand drawn rendering of the area based on, and at the scale of, the the UT Perry image. Grumble grumble, how about Tony releases the version of the plotter that can use the images (Saturday), then maybe try setting up this map. You'll probably have to remind me in IRC Saturday Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmaidhof Posted June 16, 2007 Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 Also from the original thread: "I found Su-30MK Flanker under India in the 4.1 data, no Su-30MK2V though I'm sure "kitbashable" since it is an apparent derivative. Tor-M1 is there. There is no apparent Mi-17B, Mi-35 HIND E, or Mi-26 in either 4.1 Data or HNR2003. I'll sort through the Sitreps that I have." I've checked my sitreps, still no Su-30MK2V, M-17B, Mi-35 HIND E, nor Mi-26. Any leads on data mining these, besides the obvious? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
private Posted June 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 The Su-30MK2V Flanker is just a slightly modified derivative of the Su-30MK2, with an upgraded communications suite and improved ejection seats. You can find more about the Su-30MK2 here. I am not familiar with an Mi-17B version of the Mi-17 Hip helicopter. I think this is probably actually Mi-17MTV-5, with stub wings (four hardpoints on each, typically for rocket pods) and up to 26 passengers. The Mi-35 is the export designation for the Mi-24V Hind E helicopter. The Mi-26 Halo is a heavy transport helicopter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmaidhof Posted June 16, 2007 Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 From MILAVIA and wikipedia, while an alphabet-soup exercise, the Su-30MK2V, initially made for Vietnam, is a minor modification variant of the Su-30MK2. The Su-30MK2 is an Su-30MKK modified with upgraded avionics which enabled support for anti-ship missiles. Data for the Su-30MKK Flanker C appears on Page 8 of Naval Sitrep #24 - April 2003. I'll need some more time to determine a quasi-accurate loadout for the Venezualan Air Force Flankers. I'll focus on that, and the other missing aircraft/helos over the weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmaidhof Posted June 16, 2007 Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 Using recently released Combat Plotter v1.0.6.5 and a big assist to Tony and MapBuilder, here is the final product in the Combat Plotter. Questions - Comments? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmaidhof Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 Image, not corrected above, is now tweaked and the image 60 degree longitude is aligned with the plotters 60 degree longitude line. The image longitude interval is 4 degrees while the plotter is 10 degrees, so that is why the longitudinal lines, west of 60 degrees are "off". Good enough to play on - so back to researching the other platforms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmaidhof Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 Mi26 Halo - apparently an eight-rotor, and slightly heavier, derivative of the Mi-6 Hook aeronautics.ru wikipedia fas.org I'm sure that we can mine enough detail from these sites if we feel that the Halo will play enough of a role in such a potential conflict. I'm doubtful but open to listening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
private Posted June 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 The Venezuelan aircraft are the Mi-35M2 (to be known as Caribe), Mi-17V-5 (the Panare) and the Mi-26T2 (the Pemon). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmaidhof Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 The Venezuelan aircraft are the Mi-35M2 (to be known as Caribe), Mi-17V-5 (the Panare) and the Mi-26T2 (the Pemon). Any known H4.1 equivelents? I already searched, without luck, the H4.1, High Tide, and Sea of Dragon data annexes for the Mi-6 and Mi-8 for data sheet start points. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmaidhof Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 Mi-17 HIP H Hip H Mi-35 HIND M is the export version of the Mi-24 HIND E plussed up with a twin barrelled 23mm . Need to determine what the "M2" connotation represents. Mi-35M So to extrapolate, the "Mi-24V (Hind-E) - Later development led to the Mi-24V which was first seen in the early 1980s. It armed with newer ATGMs, like the 9M114 Shturm (AT-6 Spiral) with tube launchers. Eight of those missile are mounted on four outer wing pylons." The "M" would add a twin 23mm. The "M2" ? I cannot vouch for the following: "I like the new Mi-35M2 upgrades with the armoured ATGM sight replaced by a 4 window stabilised ball sight with TV/TI/LRF/LTM equipment. The stub wings improve carrying capacity of missiles, and reduce drag and weight and the new rotors and engines make it a very manouverable bird. With the hingeless bearingless rotors of the Mi-28 the new Hind can be looped and rolled like a fighter plane. The firepower increase potential is enormous. With the laser target marker it can use Vikhr beam riding missiles and the Ugroza laser guidance kits for unguided rockets. Each 80mm rocket pod can carry 20 laser guided rockets with warheads powerful enough to take on any non MBT target vehicle. APCs and MICVs can be taken out at max ballistic range, while tanks can be engaged with ATGMs. Infantry or trucks can be taken out with cannon or cheaper unguided rockets." found in Msg 40 at Mi-35M2 Mi-26 - useable in this proposed scenario? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
private Posted June 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 Well, truth be told, none of these are necessarily required for a submarine scenario, least of all the Mi-26 heavy lift helicopter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmaidhof Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 I requested of Dave Schueler, and have graciously recieved H4.1 data on the Mi-17V-5, Mi-6, Mi-24 HIND E, and Su-30MKK Flanker G. I believe that we are set with the Venezuelan force data, and map. I/We need to come up with missions, and force mixes, for the Venezuelan, US, and third party tanker traffic. I'll start thinking about that and look forward to some collaberation. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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