March 14, 201115 yr Running tests on GIUK 2 Gauntlet. An old familiar scenario. NATO has an OHP frigate + a Type 22/2 FF + 2 merchants. Included are 2 x Lynx + 2 x Seahawk. Russians get 1 x Victor 2, 2 x Nanuchka, 6 x MiG-23. So my ships are driving along, minding their own business, at 15 kn. Suddenly we detect a bunch of torpedos incoming. The 22/2 is the target. It detaches and runs away at 30 kn. The OHP slows down to 5 kn. We launch 2 helos and start searching. Good sonar circle on the OHP (15 nm radius at this speed), lotta sonobuoys in play. When the torps are 4 nm away from the OHP, and fully detected, and still headed for the 22/2, suddenly the OHP just sinks!!! Show all! Floggers back at base, not part of this. Nanuchkas 100 nm away, out of range. Torps are Type 53-65 (13 nm range). Sub is 16 nm away from OHP. And the 6 million $ question is, what sunk the OHP? ____________________ So then I reloaded the scenario (show all on) and re-ran it about 10 times. Each time, my ships cruised right by the sub at 18 kn, which never did anything at all (stationary)! Closest approach = 24 nm.
March 14, 201115 yr Running tests on GIUK 2 Gauntlet. An old familiar scenario. NATO has an OHP frigate + a Type 22/2 FF + 2 merchants. Included are 2 x Lynx + 2 x Seahawk. Russians get 1 x Victor 2, 2 x Nanuchka, 6 x MiG-23. So my ships are driving along, minding their own business, at 15 kn. Suddenly we detect a bunch of torpedos incoming. The 22/2 is the target. It detaches and runs away at 30 kn. The OHP slows down to 5 kn. We launch 2 helos and start searching. Good sonar circle on the OHP (15 nm radius at this speed), lotta sonobuoys in play. When the torps are 4 nm away from the OHP, and fully detected, and still headed for the 22/2, suddenly the OHP just sinks!!! Show all! Floggers back at base, not part of this. Nanuchkas 100 nm away, out of range. Torps are Type 53-65 (13 nm range). Sub is 16 nm away from OHP. And the 6 million $ question is, what sunk the OHP? A Romulan warbird. Sounds a bit like the spontaneously self-destucting air groups that I encounter from time to time.
March 14, 201115 yr Author Joe, can you (or anyone else) suggest any physically possible mechanism for my situation? I can think of exactly one, but I am not going to release that information yet. Incidentally, I do have a savegame from just after the event, and I wonder if it is possible to see what weapons have been fired.
March 14, 201115 yr Joe, can you (or anyone else) suggest any physically possible mechanism for my situation? I can think of exactly one, but I am not going to release that information yet. Incidentally, I do have a savegame from just after the event, and I wonder if it is possible to see what weapons have been fired. Only thing that I can speculate is that torps from the sub got it... and the sub and OHP had moved apart after the torps were launched, thus explaining the final "out of range" indication. It may be of use to open the MessageLog file (if you haven't over-written it already). It might tell what hit the OHP.
March 14, 201115 yr Probably a blue ASW torpedo with anti-ship capability, sometimes that happens ...
March 14, 201115 yr Author Only thing that I can speculate is that torps from the sub got it... and the sub and OHP had moved apart after the torps were launched, thus explaining the final "out of range" indication. It may be of use to open the MessageLog file (if you haven't over-written it already). It might tell what hit the OHP. Sub is stationary, so that's not it. Message Log is gone, but it doesn't give that information anyway.
March 14, 201115 yr Only thing that I can speculate is that torps from the sub got it... and the sub and OHP had moved apart after the torps were launched, thus explaining the final "out of range" indication. It may be of use to open the MessageLog file (if you haven't over-written it already). It might tell what hit the OHP. Sub is stationary, so that's not it. Message Log is gone, but it doesn't give that information anyway. MessageLog file gone, too? I'm not real familar with the message logging in regards to torpedo hits, but it reports a lot of stuff about missile hits and such, so I just assumed it would do the same for other hits.
March 14, 201115 yr Author Only thing that I can speculate is that torps from the sub got it... and the sub and OHP had moved apart after the torps were launched, thus explaining the final "out of range" indication. It may be of use to open the MessageLog file (if you haven't over-written it already). It might tell what hit the OHP. Sub is stationary, so that's not it. Message Log is gone, but it doesn't give that information anyway. MessageLog file gone, too? I'm not real familar with the message logging in regards to torpedo hits, but it reports a lot of stuff about missile hits and such, so I just assumed it would do the same for other hits. Message Log file still exists, but it's empty ( I didn't think to save it, and I've been running other tests). Some of them involved driving my other ship at top speed over the sub. My ship died, but I got no information. Then I sent my remaining helos to sink the sub, but no information was recorded in the message log.
March 14, 201115 yr ...Message Log file still exists, but it's empty ( I didn't think to save it, and I've been running other tests). Some of them involved driving my other ship at top speed over the sub. My ship died, but I got no information. Then I sent my remaining helos to sink the sub, but no information was recorded in the message log. Maybe that file isn't useful anyway. I was looking at mine and I see that it is dated way back the first of March (as opposed to the ge.log, which is current-dated), so I'm not so sure when info is stored to that MessageLog file.
March 14, 201115 yr Running tests on GIUK 2 Gauntlet. An old familiar scenario. NATO has an OHP frigate + a Type 22/2 FF + 2 merchants. Included are 2 x Lynx + 2 x Seahawk. Russians get 1 x Victor 2, 2 x Nanuchka, 6 x MiG-23. So my ships are driving along, minding their own business, at 15 kn. Suddenly we detect a bunch of torpedos incoming. The 22/2 is the target. It detaches and runs away at 30 kn. The OHP slows down to 5 kn. We launch 2 helos and start searching. Good sonar circle on the OHP (15 nm radius at this speed), lotta sonobuoys in play. When the torps are 4 nm away from the OHP, and fully detected, and still headed for the 22/2, suddenly the OHP just sinks!!! Show all! Floggers back at base, not part of this. Nanuchkas 100 nm away, out of range. Torps are Type 53-65 (13 nm range). Sub is 16 nm away from OHP. And the 6 million $ question is, what sunk the OHP? ____________________ So then I reloaded the scenario (show all on) and re-ran it about 10 times. Each time, my ships cruised right by the sub at 18 kn, which never did anything at all (stationary)! Closest approach = 24 nm. My guess would be that the OHP fell victim to an undetected Type 65 torpedo from the Victor II. 16 nm is easily within their range.
March 15, 201115 yr Author Brad and Warhorse, you are probably right. As you know, a Victor 2 carries 4 x Type 65s, and AI units launch whatever bears when it bears, so those torpedos almost certainly got launched early. Here's the catch: Using approximate figures (of course this can be improved): Type 65 travels at about 45 kn. It had to travel through 15 nm of OHP sonar. OHP is creeping at the time because detected torps are headed for the 22/2. Let's suppose the dozen or sonobuoys in play at the time are in the wrong place. OHP detection is 50% each 30s. Torp travel time through sonar zone is 1/3 h = 20 min = 40 tries Failing 40 consecutive 50% tries = 2 ^ -40 = 1024 ^ -4 = about a trillion to one against !!! Actually seeing that in a lifetime? Houston, I think we have a problem. We are assuming nukes were not used. Is there a significant flaw in my calculation? Is there anyone here who can say, yeah, happens to me all the time. 1,000,000,000,000 to 1 against !!! One more time: 1,000,000,000,000 to 1 against !!!
March 15, 201115 yr Hint: sonar logging <g> LOL. Should I bet all my chips against someone actually following through on your advice?
March 15, 201115 yr Author Tony, I am guessing that sonar logging doesn't help me for a past event? And I don't expect to ever see this again, so it doesn't help me for the future? Brad, I interpret your humour as that it wouldn't work anyway?
Create an account or sign in to comment