Hi everybody,

I'm an old Harpoon fan (I must have one of the first CD versions in Italy, I guess) and just a while ago I purchased HCE, willing to refresh my strategic competences :-)

Now that I have some time to play again, I would like some enlightenment about the program and its new logic:

1) which is the best fuel efficency altitude for each plane? Is it still the default altitude it starts flying at when is launched? Is there a standard rule about it?

2) what does that "little lightning" symbol sometimes appearing on some of the planes means?

3) why the old air-to-ground attack "launch all and run home" logic is not working anymore? I see the logic is now "launch and stay loitering", that seems to me very dangerous, and force me to manually control the attack phase (I appreciated the loitering logic when air-to-air attacks are completed instead).

 

Thanks for your patience

 

Francesco

Hi everybody,

I'm an old Harpoon fan (I must have one of the first CD versions in Italy, I guess) and just a while ago I purchased HCE, willing to refresh my strategic competences :-)

Now that I have some time to play again, I would like some enlightenment about the program and its new logic:

1) which is the best fuel efficency altitude for each plane? Is it still the default altitude it starts flying at when is launched? Is there a standard rule about it?

2) what does that "little lightning" symbol sometimes appearing on some of the planes means?

3) why the old air-to-ground attack "launch all and run home" logic is not working anymore? I see the logic is now "launch and stay loitering", that seems to me very dangerous, and force me to manually control the attack phase (I appreciated the loitering logic when air-to-air attacks are completed instead).

 

Thanks for your patience

 

Francesco

 

1) Altitude doesn't matter like throttle setting does. As a result High is the most efficient setting for most aircraft in the game (they'll burn the Cruise amount of fuel at High but go faster at High than at Medium where Cruise amount of fuel is still burned per second).

 

2) That means the unit with the symbol is feeling the effects of active radar jamming. There are two active radar jamming methods in HCE, standoff and escort jamming.

 

Standoff jamming is when the jamming plane/ship/... decreases the detection range of searching radars. The closer the jammer is to the radar, the more severe the effect (as a rough rule) and the longer the listed range of the jammer, the more effect it will have (read the jammer range as a relative 'power level', not as a range).

 

Escort jamming is when the jamming plane is trying to shield nearby friendly units. This makes it tough for a radar to detect only the units close to the jammer. The closer the jammer is to the planes it is shielding, the more complete the effect.

 

Unlike in previous HC versions, the jammer does not need to be in the same group as any planes it is protecting. The HCE model as you can probably guess is much more potent.

 

3) It was purposefully changed to the fire and loiter. I don't like it, I didn't do it, but I also haven't undone it (yet).

The problem I had myself with "Launch and run" was that if I didn't keep a close eye on things, the group would launch a few weapons and then leave while still carrying ordnance. I'd then have to manually turn them around and run the whole attack again. This could get really frustrating at times, especially if I took out a picket unit and wanted to press on to more valuable targets near formation center.

 

I believe I posted that to the old Mantis site quite some time ago, and apparently it was changed to what it is now. Personally, I'd prefer the air group to remain in the area until either all their weapons are expended or all the target units are gone.

 

Buddha

The problem I had myself with "Launch and run" was that if I didn't keep a close eye on things, the group would launch a few weapons and then leave while still carrying ordnance. I'd then have to manually turn them around and run the whole attack again. This could get really frustrating at times, especially if I took out a picket unit and wanted to press on to more valuable targets near formation center.

 

I believe I posted that to the old Mantis site quite some time ago, and apparently it was changed to what it is now. Personally, I'd prefer the air group to remain in the area until either all their weapons are expended or all the target units are gone.

 

Buddha

 

I agree that both of the behaviors described are problematic in regards to managing attacks - especially if other things are going on at the same time. The problems that the current incarnation cause for me are these:

 

Most times, after an air group attacks and destroys one unit of a target group, it goes into the "loiter in place after attack" behavior - rather than proceeding to prosecute attacks against any other units of the group. This can be a good or a bad thing, depending on the situation. Many times, it leaves the attacking group just loitering within the AAW or SAM range of the target, and results in the attacking aircraft being picked off in a "turkey shoot" by the remaining units of the target group. On the other hand, it can be handy to interrupt the attack in cases where you may want to micro-manage the remainder of the attack, or perhaps to re-target the attack to a different group at that point. (I find these to be relatively rare occurances, though).

 

I think a way to improve the situation, without taking away its advantages, might be to simply add option buttons to the Staff Assistant pop-up that announces the "loitering..." status, that would allow the user to execute a "return to base", a "continue attack", or an "enter new course". This would allow appropriate action to be taken at that time - rather than having to initiate these actions separately, via the normal menus - which allows time for other Staff Assistant pop-ups to preempt such other commands. Just my two cents worth...

to simply add

 

The dreaded words I never want to hear in instructions or when suggesting changes <_ . sure it is simple to add a button. make that button do what you want and without messing up the actions of other buttons now not simple.>

 

my 2 cents...

I think a way to improve the situation, without taking away its advantages, might be to simply add option buttons to the Staff Assistant pop-up that announces the "loitering..." status, that would allow the user to execute a "return to base", a "continue attack", or an "enter new course". This would allow appropriate action to be taken at that time - rather than having to initiate these actions separately, via the normal menus - which allows time for other Staff Assistant pop-ups to preempt such other commands. Just my two cents worth...

Interesting, good idea.

2) That means the unit with the symbol is feeling the effects of active radar jamming. There are two active radar jamming methods in HCE, standoff and escort jamming.

 

Standoff jamming is when the jamming plane/ship/... decreases the detection range of searching radars. The closer the jammer is to the radar, the more severe the effect (as a rough rule) and the longer the listed range of the jammer, the more effect it will have (read the jammer range as a relative 'power level', not as a range).

 

Escort jamming is when the jamming plane is trying to shield nearby friendly units. This makes it tough for a radar to detect only the units close to the jammer. The closer the jammer is to the planes it is shielding, the more complete the effect.

 

 

 

Thanks for the prompt answer, interesting issue. I suppose you can obtain this escort jamming adding a jammer plane to your strike mission group. And how could I identify a jammer plane (or a plane with a suitable equipment) and its jamming range? Planes that come to my mind are Prowlers, any other?

 

 

About Gopher proposal, I would like it very much...we all know there's a lot of work behind a button, just hope you Tony will have a lot of spare time in the future :-)

 

 

Francesco

Thanks for the prompt answer, interesting issue. I suppose you can obtain this escort jamming adding a jammer plane to your strike mission group. And how could I identify a jammer plane (or a plane with a suitable equipment) and its jamming range? Planes that come to my mind are Prowlers, any other?

 

In the official database, electronic warfare and jamming aircraft are identified by the type 'EW'. Examples would include the EA-6B Prowler you mention, as well as:

 

EF-111A Raven

EC-130H Compass Call

Tu-16P Badger J

Su-24MP Fencer F

An-12PP Cub C

Su-24MR Fencer E

Tornado ECR

EC-130E Senior Scout

Mi-8PPA Hip K1

EH-60A Quick Fix

EA-18G Growler

Tu-16Ye Badger H

Y-8EW

HD-5 Beagle

EA-3B Skywarrior

 

Not all of these types, however, would make useful escort jammers. That would depend on what you intend them to do, and usually, if you're escorting a strike package, you are going to want a similar 'fast jet' that can keep up.

Ciao Francesco

 

Concerning ...

we all know there's a lot of work behind a button, just hope you Tony will have a lot of spare time in the future

... there are other issues were Tony work with higher priority. Please feel free to add it on http://harpgamer.com/harpforum/index.php?showforum=35 , so far you haven't it posted already in an other forum.

 

Ciao

Gottardo

Yep, and we read every wish and weigh them in picking and choosing what to work on.

Yep, and we read every wish and weigh them in picking and choosing what to work on.

 

I've just had a look at that wish list, a real impressive quantity of things to do - I thought HCE was almost perfect before I saw it :-)

Just completing half of them would made HCE the best strategic/tactic "game" around!

 

Thanks

Francesco

Yep, and we read every wish and weigh them in picking and choosing what to work on.

 

I've just had a look at that wish list, a real impressive quantity of things to do - I thought HCE was almost perfect before I saw it :-)

Just completing half of them would made HCE the best strategic/tactic "game" around!

 

Thanks

Francesco

Huh, ain't it already??

 

Don

Huh, ain't it already??

 

Hoo-rah.

Huh, ain't it already??

 

Hoo-rah.

 

Warts and all, it still is, for me. I have ANW now, but, fact is, the community around it sometimes makes me not want to play it, while HCE just gets better.