Mgellis

Thank you. There's no rush. (And, if I see other possible additions, I'll list them here.) The existing databases have plenty to keep me busy. Also, I was mostly looking at the HUD3, so some of the things I mentioned may already be in the ANW DB. Thanks again. Mark

Ralf, Okay, thanks. I'm getting it, slowly but surely. Quick question...once you have assigned a ship to a group can you change its initial position? If so, how? I can set up patrol zones easily enough, but sometimes I look at the formation and think, "No, I really want the destroyer HERE." But the only way I can move it to expel it from the group, use the Move command to change its position, and then add it back to the group again. Or is this how you are supposed to do it? Another question...about plotting a course. I noticed that when the game starts, the ships are not moving. That's okay...it sounds like the default for the game. (It sounds like you have to set up a Transit mission to get them to be moving when you start, if I'm understanding this right.) If you plot a course but do nothing else, does the plotted course remain (and so all you have to do is set speed and it will follow that course) for the player side? Thanks. Mark

I'm not sure how often these databases get updated (I imagine the authors have actual jobs, families, etc. that might demand their attention, too), but here's what I would like to see added or expanded in these databases whenever it is possible to do so... (I'm guessing some of these do not even require adding new platforms, but just listing existing ones under appropriate countries.) Angola <-- it isn't even in the HUD 3. As I understand it, they have a few Floggers and a few Flankers; I think they also have a couple of Osa IIs. That's enough to cause a little mayhem... Brunei <-- add the Darussalam OPV (with a 57 mm. gun and Exocets, it's as dangerous as many missile boats) Myanmar <-- no ships in the HUD 3? Add the Aung Zeya, Narawat, Houxin, and 5-series vessels? And no aircraft in the HUD 3? It looks like they have a pretty healthy air force, something like 30 or 40 combat planes. Mostly Mig-29s, J7s, J6s, etc. Some air forces still use the Soko G-4 Super Galeb, so that could be added, too. A number also use the Czech (?) L-39 and the L-59. Cameroon? <-- It's listed but there is nothing under it. (Of course, it's a small country, but I think it has a few patrol boats, etc.) Finland <-- Nothing is listed; they have F-18s and a bunch of fast attack craft that might be added Tanzania <-- Add to the database? They have fighters, about half-a-dozen, and about half-a-dozen fast attack craft and patrol boats. Mexico <-- in the list, but no ships or planes listed Morocco <-- in the list, but no ships or planes listed Ghana <-- has a couple of missile boats, patrol boats, etc. Ireland <-- Not even listed in the HUD3, and it has some very nice OPVs that could work in a small scale scenario Romania <-- Not even listed in the HUD3...some frigates, and their airforce includes Mig-21 Lancers and a domestic version of the Puma, the IAR 330 South Africa <-- add the Valour-class frigate, the Warrior-class, the Heroine-class submarines...also, don't they use the Grippen and their own attack helicopter, the Denel AH-2 Rooivalk, and the BAE Hawk? That's all I can think of right now. Thanks in advance for considering these additions. Mark

File Name: Follow Up 2013 File Submitter: Mgellis File Submitted: 6 Mar 2011 File Category: Scenarios DB Used: HUD3 Authors: Mark Gellis Battleset: No Information This is one of my first attempts to write a scenario for H3, using the HUD3 database. It's pretty simple, but still a bit challenging, I think. Please let me know what you think. Mark Click here to download this file

Minor observation... I noticed that some of the facilities one can blow up in the HUD3 are schools and churches. Nice, Darren. Why don't you just add an orphanage and a petting zoo while you're at it? : ) Just kidding...actually, I can see why you would want to have "facilities" that are, in effect, anti-targets...if you blow them up by mistake, you lose, even if you blow up the bad guys, too. It's a very nice touch.

I think I will probably work with the HUD3 for a while. This is NOT meant as a judgment of ANY of the DBs beyond "what seems to work best on my machine." ANW is more stable than 3.63 for some reason. I have no idea why. Probably something to do with my machine and the 64-bit version of Windows 7. This was always a big obstacle for me when it came to earlier versions of H3. To be blunt, I'm lazy. I don't want to have to fiddle with my machine or reinstall stuff every time I want to play a game. ANW has solved these problems for me. As for the database, HUD3 and ANWDB are equally easy to use, but HUD3 seems to have a few more "toys" to play with. : ) Completely different question (more along the line of "lessons I am learning as I go")... Rolands are pretty much useless against cruise missiles, aren't they? I noticed that when I ran my second trial scenario (Phibron heads to Venezuela to blow up airfield) and I pop off four Tomahawks from the SSN Scranton. (No, I don't know why a Phibron has an SSN with it...Actually, it makes sense, but I just do what the GlobalSecurity website says and what the voices in my head tell me to do, okay?) Anyway, the missiles level the airfield in short order. End of scenario. I figured out how to attach the Rolands to the airfield, making it a Group. This did not help. And, of course, since the Venezuelan planes are on the airstrip, blowing it up eliminates most of them before they get airborne, and they really are the main thing that could hurt the Phibron. Now, when I added SA-15s (I assume the Russians sold the Venezuelans some)...okay, THAT took down the Tomahawks. In other words, what I'm learning is that the gods of war did not create all SAMs equal. : ) More comments and questions later... Thanks again for all the help so far. Mark

Okay, I'm an idiot. Sorry. I didn't realize that the H3 Standard and HUD 3 databases sort entries by country when you add a unit. I was just looking at the database view which lumped them all together. Hmmm...the HUD 3 appears to have many goodies in that don't show up in the standard database... If anyone has any other remarks about the various databases, pros and cons, etc., I would certainly appreciate it. Thanks. More questions and comments later... Thanks again to everyone for all the help. Mark

Actually, all this leads to a related set of questions. Aside from the PlayersDB, which appears to be a taboo subject here, the choices I'm offered in the database manager (that is so convenient...thank you, whoever thought of that...) are... ANW DB 2.4.3 Harpoon 3 Standard Database HUD3 1.5.0 A few quick questions... 1) What are the pros and cons of each one? Or, if they're all equally good, what the main differences between them? Or, are they all pretty much the same and it's just a matter of personal taste? 2) More or less, how many scenarios are available for each one? 3) In the general opinion of the Harpoon community, which is emerging as the current "standard" for people writing scenarios? I'd like my scenarios, when I get around to writing them, to be as accessible to people as I can make them. (Of course, with the database manager, it probably doesn't matter much, but I'm curious if one database has emerged as "the one most people use" or not.) Thanks. Mark

Don't worry about it. I mostly concerned that I was doing something wrong. If it's simply that the player's ships start that way, by default, I'll work with it. I apologize if I hit a raw nerve with my mention of the PlayersDB. I confess I'm still too much of a novice with H3 to tell the difference--to be honest, at this point, one of the biggest reasons I like the PlayersDB is simply that it lists the years of service and country in the name of each platform, which is very convenient. Mark

I'm using the Players DB. I will say one thing...almost all the problems I was having with the 3.63 scenario editor (crashing, etc.) went bye-bye when I switched to ANW. I'm going to work with that for a while and see what happens. 3.63 is nice, but at least on my machine it is still clunky and glitchy. ANW is remarkably smooth and stable in comparison. Not sure why. Probably something to do with my machine and Windows 7. If the player's ships not moving is the default, then okay. Is there a way to tell the machine that I would like the ships moving, on a particular course, etc.? (Sorry if these are really basic questions...I'm a novice with H3.) One "problem" that I resolved...at first, I couldn't add aircraft to an airbase I had set up. And then it occurred to me that ANW might require you to add aircraft to the individual hanger rather than just the "base." Once I figured that out, I was able to add them without any difficulty. Duh!

Well, I'm finally getting started with Harpoon 3 scenario design... The first scenario is a very simple one...one US cruiser, one Venezuelan frigate, and 6 Venezuelan F-16As. The cruiser patrols waters near Venezuela and the Venezuelans interpret this as an attack and go after her. They win if they sink her; the US wins if they stay alive...sinking the Venezuelan ship is not necessary for victory (although it may be necessary for survival). I apologize in advance if some of these questions are rather basic. First set of questions... I plotted a course for the American ship but it is not moving when the game starts. What do I need to do to fix this? I think a Protect victory condition is what I want--the US starts in a neutral posture and Venezuela is hostile and will attack; Victory would be achieved by the US simply by surviving, regardless of where the ship is--but it tells me every 30 minutes of game time that I've won. That's a bit annoying, especially if you're at something like 1 minute to 1 second compression. Is there any way to set a Protect Victory Condition so it waits until, say, the end of the scenario to see if you've managed to meet the victory condition? I suppose a Station victory condition might work, but I'm having a little trouble getting that to work properly. I will try it again and see what happens. Thanks. Mark

Tony, Thanks for the quick reply. Unfortunately, I really wasn't planning on upgrading Windows 7 to the Professional edition. If I was, then getting the HCE editor to work again would be the icing on the cake, but I can't really justify doing it simply to get that one program to work, and that's all it would be for in my case. But if H3 and the editor will work under Windows 7/64-bit, then maybe it's the universe telling me it's time to finally give H3 a try... Mark

Friends, I'd be grateful for a bit of advice. Here's my situation... I've long enjoyed HCE, but Windows 7 (64-bit) does not like the scenario editor! I can play the game, but I can't open the editor. I don't know when, if ever, a version of the scenario editor will be available that is 32-bit (I guess the problem is that the 64-bit windows doesn't like the 16-bit scenario editor) and, along with playing Harpoon, I'd love to keep writing Harpoon scenarios. I'm willing to give Harpoon 3 another try. I got an early version that crashed a LOT and finally gave up in disgust, but that was many years ago. In fact, H3 might be a better program for me to write scenarios on anyway, since a lot of the ones I find interesting are small battles between a couple of small or medium forces, and H3 seems to handle those up-close-and-personal scenarios very well. So here is the big question... Does the scenario editor for Harpoon 3/ANW that comes with the Ultimate Edition work under Windows 7 (64-bit)? If the H3 scenario editor and 64-bit Windows 7 don't get along, then I'm out luck (or I have to borrow my daughter's 32-bit laptop any time I want to write scenarios...this is not really a viable option...). If they do get along, I may just have to treat myself to Ultimate Edition and try my hand at a few H3 scenarios. Are there any other issues related to Windows 7 that I should be aware of before I buy the Ultimate Edition? Thanks! Mark

Friends, As some of you know, I do a bit of writing for Steve Jackson Games. The new version of GURPS has a wonderfully streamlined system for vehicles, very useful for GURPS itself, but some of the statistics are a little hard to track down for those of us trying to write game versions of various real world vehicles. I was wondering if anyone knew of any good sources for the following information... For ships and submarines: 1) Although it is not too hard to find the standard displacements and full load displacements for warships, for a lot of cargo ships, they only list tonnage (which is a measure of volume, not actual mass). While I am sure using tonnage and gross tonnage and so on is very useful to the people who actually use these ships to earn a living, I'm afraid the statistic is useless to me. Are there any guidelines or formulas for estimating displacement based on tonnage? (Or simply any reference works that just list the standard and full displacements for these ships? This would be easier and therefore preferable.) 2) How fast do big ships accelerate? Top speeds and cruising speeds are very easy to find; they're listed in most reference works, etc. But how long does it take a boat or ship to reach this speed from a dead stop? I've heard the LCS can get to 45 knots in about two minutes and a Spruance can get to 33 knots in about twelve minutes. I've also heard that a large cargo ship can usually get from a dead stop to 15 knots in about 15 to 30 minutes. For smaller boats, cabin cruisers and the like, this information is sometimes available (many boat reviews include a 0-20 knots or 0-30 knots time), but I haven't found much for larger vessels. Are there any guidelines, reference works, observations from the personal experiences of fellow forum members, etc.? What about submarines? 3) If there are any important differences for #2 (i.e., the acceleration issue) between conventional and nuclear systems, gas turbines compared to older kinds of steam vessels, etc., could someone explain the basics? Thanks in advance. Mark

The 'storyline' is simply the scenario background, if you prefer that term. Something that sets the stage for the scenario, and follow on scenarios, if they are desirable. Exactly. That was what I was thinking with my "giveaway" thread. It looks like using the SE is going to be difficult for me from now on, so I figure one good option is to just give people ideas and see what they come up with. The storyline also makes the scenario more engaging...since Harpoon is about the fantasy of commanding fast ships going in harm's way, and so on, having a "plot" of some kind makes it easier for people to get into it. Of course, a lot of the plots are variations on a basic theme, except instead of "boy meets girl" or "cowboy saves town from man with black hat" it's "get your convoy past the enemy subs" or "stop the enemy bombers from attacking your base." Speaking of that, if someone wanted to really be ambitious, they might write a cluster of scenarios that works through all the cells on the following "grid"... Basic Mission: Get your convoy past the enemy subs. You are currently west of the Orkney Islands and are trying to reach a port on the western coast of Norway. One British airbase is available to provide some assistance (4 x Nimrod). Air threats and surface threats are not expected. The subs are spaced out in three or four groups of one or two subs, so you can probably count on at least a couple of encounters. Min. Vic. for blue = get most of the ships to the port; max. vic. = kill most of the Red subs. Min. vic. for Red = kill a certain number of ships; max. vic for Red = kill more ships. Pick ONE from Column Blue and ONE from column Red. Column Blue Option A 2 x Halifax FFG 2 x CH-124 Sea King 6 x Merchant 6 x Tanker Option B 1 x DDG Cassard 1 x FF Lafayette 2 x Lynx 6 x Merchant 6 x Tanker Option C 1 x Bremen 1 x Brandenburg 3 x Sea Lynx Mk.88A 6 x Merchant 6 x Tanker Option D 1 x Yavuz class frigate (Turkish) 1 x Tepe class (Knox class) Frigates 2 x Sikorsky S-70B2 Seahawk 6 x Merchant 6 x Tanker Option E 1 x Horizon FF 1 x Maestrale FF 2 x AB-212 helicopters 1 x EH101 6 x Merchant 6 x Tanker Option F 1 x Al Riyadh/Lafayette (Saudi) 1 x Al Medinah 1 x NH90 6 x Merchant 6 x Tanker Column Red Option A 2 x Kilo 2 x Akula Option B 2 x Kilo 2 x Victor III Option C 2 x Kilo 1 x Sierra 1 x Oscar Enjoy!

For the above scenario cluster... Use any THREE of the following surface or submarine groups. One should be close to one of the Russian submarine groups (approx. 50 miles, with the rough direction to the group noted in the orders file); the second should be close to the second submarine group (approx. 50 miles, with the rough direction to the group noted in the orders file); the third should be located randomly somewhere within the area of operation...it may be able to assist OR it may be in need of protection. (In fact, one could put it right on top of one of the submarine groups and let the scenario begin with that group being attacked!). ONE of the following air groups should also be included. In addition, there should be one fishing boat and one tanker or merchant in the area, as Neutral (Green) vessels, just to make things interesting. The country with the Air Group is assumed to be the one "in charge," but it does not have to have any other forces involved in the scenario. It could be South Korean planes assisting British and Australian ships and an Australian submarine, for example. It is possible that all the groups, besides the air groups, are submarines...one could have a Japanese sub, a British sub, and a French sub going after the Russian subs. There are easily a dozen possible variations here. Enjoy. I look forward to seeing what people come up with. Just for clarity, I give permission for anyone who wants to use the information in any of my postings to write scenarios for any form of Harpoon to do so. The more the merrier. In fact, I hope people come up with their own variations on what I've provided (I suppose Spanish forces might be in the Pacific for some reason...), etc. I'm guessing 24 hours should be sufficient for the scenario. Victory conditions: Blue Min. kill 2 submarines; Blue Max. kill 3 submarines; Red Min.; 2 subs on station for 23 hours and 50 minutes; Red. Max. 3 subs on station for 23 hours and 50 minutes JAPANESE FORCES Surface Group 1 1 x Atago DDG 1 x Murasame DD 2 x SH-60K Surface Group 2 1 x Hatsuyuki 1 x Takanami 1 x SH60K Submarine Group 1 1 x Oyashio Air Group 1 2 x E-767 AEW 2 x P-3C 12 x F-15J 2 x KC-767 (Tanker) SOUTH KOREAN FORCES Surface Group 3 1 x Ulsan FF 1 x Gwanggaeto the Great 2 x Super Lynx Submarine Group 2 1 x Chang Bogo Air Group 2 12 x KF-16C Block 52 6 x F-4E 2 x P-3C 2 x Boeing E-737 (AEW) AUSTRALIAN FORCES Surface Group 4 1 x Anzac class 1 x Adelaide class 3 x S-70B Submarine Group 3 1 x Collins BRITISH FORCES Surface Group 5 1 x Type 42 destroyer 1 x Type 23 frigate 1 x Lynx helicopter 1 x Merlin helicopter Submarine Group 4 1 x Astute FRENCH FORCES Surface Group 6 1 x Horizon 1 x Georges Leygues 2 x Lynx helicopter 1 x NH90 helicopter Submarine Group 5 1 x Améthyste

Well, while I wait for the SE situation to resolve itself, here is a new cluster of adventure ideas. Basically, the central idea is the same. It's around 2015 and things have gotten a little tense in the Pacific for one reason or another (possibly squabbles over oil, fish, etc.) The Blue side (which will vary, see upcoming posts) has reason to believe that Russia is planning something and decides to act first by crippling their Pacific forces. The goal is to eliminate at least two and preferably three subs. Naturally, Russia (RED) will not want this to happen. The location will be the WestPac map. Most of the action will take place in and around the Sea of Okhotsk and the Sea of Japan. BLUE forces will be drawn mostly from Japan, South Korea, Australia, etc. with limited help from the British, the U.S., etc. in various scenarios. Basically, the idea is to see how the same scenario plays out with different BLUE assets. First, the Russians. The rest in later posts. Russian Forces Sub Group 1 1 x Delta SSBN (K-223 Podolsk) 1 x Akula II (K-295 Samara) Sub Group 2 1 x Kilo Surface Group 1 1 x AGI (whatever class is likely to be active) 1 x FFL (Probably Grisha V, but use your best judgment) Air Assets (Use whichever base seems appropriate) 2 x A-50 Mainstay 4 x Tu-22M Backfire (ASuW) 2 x Tu-142M BearF (ASW) 2 x Il-78 Midas (Tanker) 2 x Tu95RT Bear D (Recon) 18 x Su27 Flanker (some flavor of Intercept)

The Ultimate Edition SE is still a 16-bit program so it will not run on 64-bit operating systems. Just to be clear, the SE runs on Windows 7 32-bit without jumping through any hoops. *Sigh* I understand...Harpoon is a niche market and it probably isn't cost-effective in terms of the hours needed to create a new version of the SE program. However, I hope some kind of workaround will eventually be made available for those of us who like the 64-bit version of Windows 7 but wish to avoid having to upgrade to Premium, download Virtual Machine, yada yada yada.

Yes, I may have to go that route if the Harpoon Ultimate SE is still going to be 16-bit. I just hate to spend $100 (or however much it costs to upgrade Home Premium to Professional) to be able to run ONE program. (I mean, for that kind of money, I can get a used laptop on e-bay with XP on it and have a laptop.) Grrr!

Okay, here's what I've been doing... I copied the newest version of the HCDB to my copy of an earlier version of Harpoon (2004), which runs fine on my old Windows 98 laptop. I wrote and saved a short scenario (Japanese Navy vs. Russian subs). I could not get the CD-ROM drive to burn a disk (it reads them fine but won't burn them for some reason) so I copied the scenario to a floppy disk so I can see if it runs on my new computer (the scenario editor was acting a little buggy, but I think the scenario saved all right) and... [...wait for it...] ...my new computer, the one with Windows 7, doesn't have a floppy drive. It has slots for pretty much everything else (SD cards, etc.) but no 3.5" drive. [Please insert hideous primal screaming here. Seriously, if you made a movie of this, no one would believe it...] Okay, I'll find someone who has a floppy drive and have them copy and e-mail me the file and then I'll see if it works. So it's not a tragedy, just a pain in the neck to write scenarios now. I'm hoping that when Harpoon Ultimate Edition is released this summer that its scenario editor WILL run under Windows 7. If so, the problem is solved. On the bright side, I can run Nobunaga's Ambition II (one of my favorite old games) in DosBox. (Can't run the Scenario Editor, unfortunately...it says it needs Windows...) More later...

I would not make that assumption, Ralf. Sorry...I was out of town for a few weeks with no internet access. Actually, I don't care. If people want to make multiple versions of the scenarios, that's fine. Please go right ahead. Mark P.S. If anyone else wants to post ideas here for scenarios they don't have time to put together, can't get the SE to work, etc. please feel free. The more the merrier! P.P.S. Any news on the 32-bit conversion of the SE?

I don't think I can do that...I only have the Home Premium edition, so I'd have to pay for it, which I don't feel like doing. Fortunately, there should be a freeware application somewhere that will do the same thing for me. I just have to find it. I'll get the thing running eventually. I have a lot of other projects going on right now so it may be a while. But meanwhile, I will post ideas here for anyone who wants to use them.

Okay, here's the situation... I just upgraded to Windows 7, and I love it, but the scenario editor no longer works. The game itself runs fine, though. I understand this has something to do with the difference between 64-bit and 32-bit systems. I know there are some work-arounds for this, including Virtual Machines, etc., but I don't have any of those set up yet and I'm honestly not sure when I will get around to it. Any chance someone is working on a new version of the scenario editor? You know, one that will work under Windows 7? In any event, it occurred to me that I can still contribute to the Harpoon community by posting detailed scenario ideas for other people to use. Maybe I can't create scenarios for a while, but I can help others do so by giving them ideas. I will try to post as much information as possible with each scenario idea, but I assume people who are interested will take these ideas and expand on them. Folks may assume if I post something in this thread it can be treated as "Please feel free to use this as is, alter it as necessary, etc." The only thing I ask is that you please give me credit somewhere, maybe something like "Original scenario concept by Mark Gellis" listed somewhere. Just to get things started... GIUK 2003 Battleset HCDB database A few years in the future... As fish populations collapsed around the world due to overfishing, nations began to come into conflict--some nations were not overly careful about whether or not they strayed into some other nation's fisheries or territorial waters. In the last few months, Norwegian fishing boats have violated British waters. The British government intends to send a strong message. The British task force commander is ordered to capture or sink Norwegian fishing boats found north of the Shetland island. The task force is currently south of the Shetland islands. British (Blue) forces 1 x FFG Type 23 CUP 1 x OPV River 1 or 2 Lynx 8 helicopters At some northern UK base 1 x Nimrod 4 2 x Typhoon F2 Norwegian Forces (all dispersed...no one working together as a group, just isolated vessels within 100 miles of the Shetlands, but the FFG and the sub would be near one of the fishing boats, but leaving the other two to fend for themselves) 4 x Fishing Boats 1 x Type 210 Ula submarine 1 x FFG Nansen At some Norwegian base (west coast) 4 x F-16 AM/BM MLU 1 x Naval P3-N Orion Time Required: One day? Maybe only hours? Victory conditions: Blue min = sink 2 fishing boats; Blue max = sink 4 fishing boats; Red min = sink 1 ship; Red max. = sink 2 ships Any takers?

Brad, This link may be of interest to you, as it provides the names for a couple of dozen U.S. ships and submarines under construction or planned (at the bottom). In addition, it distinguishes between the Freedom class and the Independence class, so perhaps the latter needs to be added. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_curre...ted_States_Navy These pages may also be of interest as they discuss classes that are planned or already under construction... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Navy (especially the bit about them buying Akula submarines) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arihant_class_submarine Mark