b] Those behaviors are generally different from what I see, particularly in the case of what happens when the group goes beyond the end of its pre-set course, for example I regularly see cases where the air groups continue for a hundred miles or so beyond the end of their course - without ever a Staff Announcement or anything - until they reach the BINGO fuel announcement.

 

I don't recall an air unit ever returning to base without being ordered to do so - except in a few instances where some group types will still automatically return after completing their attacks (which is itself inconsistent with the current norm).

 

Running out of fuel on the "overspeed" return-to-base run is the "fault" of the player; my only point is that it would be very helpful if the Staff Assistant would report when such groups reach BINGO - rather than just letting them run out and crash. With everything else going on, it is very easy to forget about one or more such groups who are on their RTB dash, so having that little BINGO alert would be a BIG help.

 

c) My main concerns with re-fueling are the difficulties in arranging rendezvous between tanker groups and receiver groups, and controlling when the refueling occurs. It's kind of ironic too, because the automatic timing of the refueling act is one area where "manual" control would be useful - yet it is one of the few aspects of the game that is handled automatically.

 

f) Well, yes... but if one must micro-manage such things, it would make life easier if there were at least some Staff Alerts or option pop-ups that would help with this micro-management (as are offered in certain other situations).

 

Regarding:

 

b] If you want groups to notify you the instant they reach the end of their orders, I can't help you with that. (However, it has been my experience that such groups will, before very long, automatically call in for new orders. Perhaps it takes them longer than in Harpoon Classic; I haven't analyzed this. But they do call in, 100% of the time. Incidentally, there is a staff option "ignore no movement orders". I presume that you have NOT selected this?) But if you want groups to loiter when they run out of orders, that is easy to set up. While you are assigning a course, just before you close that menu, and presumably when the last waypoint is selected, bring up the "speed" menu and select "loiter". This is the default when you launch to patrol, but not otherwise. Works like a charm.

 

Is it possible that the current default is that RTB after firing only happens when the platform in question has exhausted 100% of its firepower? Otherwise it loiters or continues the attack run.

 

The game gives you several prompts to RTB with units that are "low" on fuel. However, after you have refused all of them, or if you have accepted any of them, I believe that unit will issue no more prompts. Or maybe it's simply a question of being at 5% bingo?

 

Pilot to senior officer: Sir, I'm low on fuel. Returning to base at cruise.

 

Senior officer to pilot: Use full afterburner! We need you back here ASAP!

 

Pilot: Sir, I don't have enough fuel for that ...

 

Senior officer: Use full afterburner, dammit!

 

Pilot: Sir! Yes, Sir!

 

c) See http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2165704 for an example of some of the detailed calculations that you may need to make for refueling. Bear in mind that real pilots have to do this sort of thing, and much more, all the time.

 

To have manual control over when refueling happens, recognize that the automatic refueling is triggered when a tanker is in a group with a unit that is "low" on fuel. You can manually control the grouping aspect. In Harpoon, it is possible to get your fuel on the fly, as it were, but that is hardly realistic. In real life, both planes need to be real close to each other over an extended period of time, and that's a pretty tricky maneuver. The Harpoon process already glosses over much of this.

 

f) Assuming you have that staff option set, you will always be informed of new "threats". If your plane cannot defend itself, assume that it will be ambushed, and provide a contingency.

 

 

Replies:

 

b] That's correct (I don't have "ignore no movement orders" checked). In the HCE Demo that I'm running, the "no orders" does appear (well, usually), but always just before the BINGO fuel alert appears (that is, when I close the "no orders" dialog, the BINGO alert appears immediately - which is kind of a weird sequence, operationally).

 

Yup, you can set loiter orders, but the cases that I'm thinking of are those where no terminating commands are set - for whatever reason. In the past, the groups didn't seem to go far beyond their orders before issuing a request for new orders, but now, it seems that they run to BINGO before asking for orders. And I was curious why that is the case.

 

In thinking about the cases where groups automatically RTB after an attack, you may be correct that it was helo groups, or whatever, that have expended all of their weapons in ground attack - as compared to fixed-wing groups which typically have both AA and ASuW weapons, so when they expend all their ASuW stuff (but still have AAMs), they do the loiter bit, instead of automatic RTB. I'll have to try some experiments to check this. In any case, it would be handy to have the RTB option offered as part of the loitering "announcement".

 

As far as BINGO fuel warnings go, I believe that you get only one per air group per sortie - or perhaps that is only if you cancel the first one (?).

 

In your analogy, the desired effect is for the senior officer to order the pilots to use full AB only until they reach BINGO - or more appropriately, to have the staff calculate the optimum balance of return speed versus fuel remaining, and order the pilots accordingly. The idea is to get 'em back in one piece as fast as possible... rather than running them out of fuel. Probably the easiest solution would be if the BINGO fuel announcement would appear even when the group was on an RTB course - that is, when on an RTB leg, or when on a multi-leg course that includes an RTB leg, either of which apparently suppresses the BINGO fuel alert as things are now.

 

 

c) I'm all for having the ability for the "staff" to manage the re-fueling operations of a flight - so long as it is done in a reasonable fashion - as opposed to tanker groups spontaneously doing "self-refueling" at only 75% of BINGO. In other words, if some aspects are going to be done automatically like that, it would be helpful to at least have the Staff Assistant ask for confirmation of the various major refueling actions - as is the case with most other game activities.

 

 

f) In the cases I'm thinking of (that is, searching for attached mobile units), the detection of threat comes too late for the aircraft to do much of anything as far as evasion goes... or even for any attack (in the cases where the air group has suitable weapons).

Whoo hoo, one I can answer

 

Land unit operation is different due to the short distances involved. HC uses group center to group center distances for many targeting operations and when unit spacing tends to be greater than weapon range group center to group center calculations make for a game of groups chasing each other in tight little circles and never firing (funny as it may be to watch). So Land operations have to be micromanaged. The AI has the upper hand as it can check if units are in range every second. The player tends not to like to do that. Sure it screams for some staff assistance (and for a while we did let friendly ground units auto-fire on enemy ground units) but the manual route can work now and again. I can destroy a T-72 or two with the M-1s in WestPac 1.0 pretty regularly but I lose in the end too and bring in aircraft.

 

Hmmm ... perhaps it would work better if the player put each land unit in its own group?

Whoo hoo, one I can answer

 

Land unit operation is different due to the short distances involved. HC uses group center to group center distances for many targeting operations and when unit spacing tends to be greater than weapon range group center to group center calculations make for a game of groups chasing each other in tight little circles and never firing (funny as it may be to watch). So Land operations have to be micromanaged. The AI has the upper hand as it can check if units are in range every second. The player tends not to like to do that. Sure it screams for some staff assistance (and for a while we did let friendly ground units auto-fire on enemy ground units) but the manual route can work now and again. I can destroy a T-72 or two with the M-1s in WestPac 1.0 pretty regularly but I lose in the end too and bring in aircraft.

 

Hmmm ... perhaps it would work better if the player put each land unit in its own group?

...or stick units wit longest range out in front??

Knowing what is out there (and might shoot back as soon as you're in range) seems pretty important. If you have the range advantage go in if no aircraft are available, other wise run and hide. That's my approach.

Don

Hmmm ... perhaps it would work better if the player put each land unit in its own group?

 

That's the horse I backed when we first added the mobile land units. Doesn't seem any scenarios have been made that way though. It would also really only apply when land v land combat was expected.