Take one General Atomics Avenger (aka Predator C), a stealthy jet UCAV with internal bay, tailhook, onboard SAR, and a version of the ETOS from the F-35 (this is existing kit, if still developmental). Stretch the wingspan and length to similar that of the S-3 (another 2.5ft or so wingspan, another 10ft length). The length increase will add enough space to stretch the internal bay from ~15ft to 20+ft. A proposed folding wing variant has already been discussed by GA and, in both GA's comment and this thought experiment, the extra wingspan will be used to counter the space required for the folding mechanism for no change in endurance.

 

For the sake of argument, handwave the probable engine output increase and various other tweaks given that we've increased the size. The only additional "requirement" is a payload increase of ~1000lbs which is about a 33% increase. Yes, it is a significant increase but the length has increased by 25% as well. This allows a larger engine, more fuel, etc as well as increased wing area in the portion of the wing near the fuselage due to the shape of the wing. We assume any additional range is converted into payload capacity.

 

We now have a low observable carrier capable UCAV with the ability to carry something even as heavy as a heavy weight torpedo like the Mk48 or a nice load (6-8?) of guided 500lb class weapons (or LWTs, harpoons, etc) over a range of ~7000nm (conservative estimate of 350kts @20hrs, wikipedia et al says max 400+kts and 20+hrs) at a cost estimated to be $8-20M (which is apparently arrived at by multiplying the cost of the Global Hawk by 20% or the Pred B by 3).

 

(Also assume that the DoD & Congress finally get a clue and begin investing in the comms infrastructure like they should have already been doing...)

 

• Points for discussion:
  
• Does this sound doable?
  
• What tradeoffs might make sense? (In other words, is 7000 nm of range (or loiter time) worth the cost or can it be traded away for speed or payload?)
  
• Does this change the game of a carrier group?
  

Hmmm ... I'm not sure how doable your mods are. You're asking for a very substantial increase in weight with minimal extra wing area. The vehicle might have enough lift to pull it off anyway, but it won't maneuver as well, and it will burn more fuel to do it. I would also say that your estimated range is optimistic by 30 to 50 percent, because max endurance never comes at max throttle. You probably also lose some range if you take off with a near-max payload, too. Bearing all that in mind, what would this platform be good for? Well, recon/surveillance comes to mind, if the P-3s/P-8s/BAMS are busy or otherwise unavailable. With a different sensor suite, it might make a great fixed-wing ASW system, although in that case the stealth features are largely pointless. It has the range and payload to be a decent long range strike platform. OTOH, there's a real question as to whether the necessary degree of control (secure comms, etc) can be maintained against a sophisticated opponent. There's also the problem that this platform would have negligible air-to-air capability, and its potential fighter escorts have nothing like the same range. Stealth is great when it works, but the necessity for an active datalink makes that rather more of a challenge. If/when it does get spotted, it doesn't have much reserve performance to help with dodging, and remotely piloted vehicles necessarily sacrifice a certain amount of situational awareness compared to a pilot who is right there to see that he's being shot at, so it may not realize it needs to dodge in time. You could use it as a communications relay. It probably doesn't have enough on-board electrical generation capacity to be used for an AWACS role. On the whole, although there are a few specialized niches it could fill, I don't think this would constitute a game-changing new capability. Sorry ...

Hmmm ... I'm not sure how doable your mods are. You're asking for a very substantial increase in weight with minimal extra wing area. The vehicle might have enough lift to pull it off anyway, but it won't maneuver as well, and it will burn more fuel to do it. I would also say that your estimated range is optimistic by 30 to 50 percent, because max endurance never comes at max throttle. You probably also lose some range if you take off with a near-max payload, too. Bearing all that in mind, what would this platform be good for? Well, recon/surveillance comes to mind, if the P-3s/P-8s/BAMS are busy or otherwise unavailable. With a different sensor suite, it might make a great fixed-wing ASW system, although in that case the stealth features are largely pointless. It has the range and payload to be a decent long range strike platform. OTOH, there's a real question as to whether the necessary degree of control (secure comms, etc) can be maintained against a sophisticated opponent. There's also the problem that this platform would have negligible air-to-air capability, and its potential fighter escorts have nothing like the same range. Stealth is great when it works, but the necessity for an active datalink makes that rather more of a challenge. If/when it does get spotted, it doesn't have much reserve performance to help with dodging, and remotely piloted vehicles necessarily sacrifice a certain amount of situational awareness compared to a pilot who is right there to see that he's being shot at, so it may not realize it needs to dodge in time. You could use it as a communications relay. It probably doesn't have enough on-board electrical generation capacity to be used for an AWACS role. On the whole, although there are a few specialized niches it could fill, I don't think this would constitute a game-changing new capability. Sorry ...

 

I'm currently under the weather and under the influence of drugs... Which makes hypothetical platforms all the more fun...

 

I'll admit to expecting to pick up some extra lift from the increased size of the fuselage (looking at the F-14 where up to 40% of the lift was created by the fuselage, similar numbers under some conditions for the F-16). As for manuever, this UAV is based on a UAV that isn't of the dogfighting sort. It can pull some probably impressive manuevers but I wouldn't expect it to be seeking out furballs.

 

The range I gave was a nice round number and probably actually underestimates the range. A 20hr endurance with a cruise speed of 400kts for the unmodded version gives 8000nm. The switch from the prop to the turbine gives a good bit more speed and much higher cruise speeds. A large body would impose a bigger drag penalty but would also add to the fuel load substantially where the fuselage already carries approximately half the fuel load. (My reference to wikipedia's 400+ kts and 20+ hrs was supposed to evoke the similar phrasing when talking about the speeds/ranges of things like the Seawolf class and Nimitz carriers where the numbers are low and obviously not correct.)

 

Now, as to the mission it is good for (and we'll stick the original payload since the increase was controversial and didn't bring much to the table other than a HWT)... The onboard sensors are the Lynx SAR and a recce version of the F-35 EOTS as well as having plans for a wide area surveil AESA recon pod for the bay. The MP-RTIP project plans radar sets that are scalable from the Global Hawk to the (now dead) E-10 so you can probably put a mini-AWACs set in the Avenger as well (the Global Hawk has more engine power, but a smaller payload). So we have at least minor surface search covered with just the onboard sensors and potentially much more with the sensor payload (not as a replacement for an E-3 / P-8 but you can never have enough ISR assets). With a 3000lb payload, you get a couple of Harpoons, JDAMs, etc so we have a light persistent strike role there. Certainly not CAS, but given a "stealthed up" LO UAV plus standoff weapons and a reasonably high cruise speed, you don't have something restricted to milk runs. An ASW role seems easily added given the removal of the ASW mission from the S-3B removed about 834lbs from the S-3B (including 40 or so sonobuoys)... Round that up to an even 1000lbs and add two LWTs like the Mk46 for a payload of 2000lbs. (With the extra 1k lbs used to make up whatever handwaving didn't work or an extra couple of LWTs.) Pred Bs are already being fitted with 45 KVA generators for jamming purposes so you can add jamming to the list.

 

The question of the comms is going to be a fleet wide question... My only response can be that the problem will be solved or UAVs won't be flown. Though, if the problem isn't solved, an awful lot of related tech is going out the window as well (plenty of new datalinks, satcoms, etc). For now, assume a modicum of comms capability plus some semi-intelligent programming. It doesn't take much to fly to point A, acquire a target, and launch your payload or running when you are locked up by hostile radar. (We have cruise missiles that do as much now, at least on the acquiring a target portion.)

 

For the stealth portion, burst satcoms are pretty stealthy and pointed away from most detection methods. The F-22 and F-35 projects are much stealthier concepts and use active links too. Real time continuous control (and the required larger datastreams) aren't necessary for the majority of missions. As for the idea that it is helpless when discovered, it can do pretty much what any non-fighter can do... Run and pray. The amount of effect that situation awareness will play in a non-short range engagement, I have to question. At longer ranges, the UAV will be monitoring its sensors as well as, if not better than, a human. When a fighter gets in close, the game is pretty much over and the Avenger is left with a military throttle and evasive manuevers of questionable utility. (I'm guessing on that though. For all I know, it is one heck of a sturdy craft capable of turning humans into paste via g-force.)

 

This thing certainly won't be engaging in air to air combat, at least at close ranges. Nobody expects an E-2, P-3, S-3 or an SH-60 to do so either. I did read some blog posts positing the carriage of AIM-120s so maybe some silent shooter BVR roles might not be out of line though.

A couple or more air-to-air Stingers (aka 'air mines' ) might deter or at least foil an attacker.

I did read some blog posts positing the carriage of AIM-120s so maybe some silent shooter BVR roles might not be out of line though.

I remember serious test with Kaman Seasprite and AIM-7 Sparrow.

http://www.aviastar.org/helicopters_eng/kaman_sea.php

(but I don't remember the mentioned usage of AIM-9 Sidewinder)

Lockheed Martin is working with General Atomics Aeronautical Systems to fly a version of the F-35’s stealthy electro-optical targeting system (EOTS) on the Avenger unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) in the latter part of 2010.

Article

Points for discussion:

• What tradeoffs might make sense? (In other words, is 7000 nm of range (or loiter time) worth the cost or can it be traded away for speed or payload?)
  
• Does this change the game of a carrier group?
  

 

Contrary to my esteemed colleagues here I do believe such weapons represent game changers for a carrier group. With range at least four times that of the closest manned competitor on the deck (E-2) not to mention higher speed the ability to gather information for precision targeting increases dramatically. Let's not even get started on loiter time! Presence and persistence are the two key capabilities such birds add to the mix. That isn't such a big deal with the Air Force around except perhaps on the presence front. If the carrier is already on station, time to target and information gathering is much shorter from the carrier than from the US or UK or wherever.

 

When you add the weapons capabilities as Brains has so naturally done, even better, though in a higher intensity conflict I imagine my sensor platforms such as the UAVs would be more valuable as sensors than sticking necks out to take a pot shot at the bad guys, send in the Super Bugs for that.

 

Where I really see value is when some near peer opponent decides to level the playing field by taking out comms sats and the US military comes to a screeching halt. Then the varied comms methods part of CEC and Brain's UAVs really come into their own and the Navy finds itself in a position of still being able to fight when the Air Force is almost entirely paralyzed. imho that is where the Brains solution comes thru and proves itself a game changer.