IOPG - and then there were two - remake request

[TonyE]

Would anyone like to volunteer to recreate the [Original IOPG] scenario "12.0 ...and then there were two"?

This would need to be tested and ready to go by mid-December 2024 at the latest.

Parameters:

1. Similar groups, units, victory conditions to the original scenario.

2. Use EC2003 IOPG or Custom BattleSet.

2. Use HCDB or HCDB2 (HCDB2 would need a custom BattleSet from the BS Builder to make distribution reasonable).

3. Adjust design for increased realism (would Kuzenetsov really carry that many planes in that timeframe, similar for Nimitz, ...)

4. Add two submarines per side

Edited September 6, 2024 by TonyE
added submarine bullet point

[broncepulido]

On holidays to 12 September or so, later I'll see.

[donaldseadog]

4 hours ago, broncepulido said:

On holidays to 12 September or so, later I'll see.

"On Holidays"! How can you have holidays when you're retired

I can give you hand eg for testing or other is you wish Enrique, I'm also "On Holidays"

Don

[broncepulido]

16 hours ago, TonyE said:

Would anyone like to volunteer to recreate the [Original IOPG] scenario "12.0 ...and then there were two"?

This would need to be tested and ready to go by mid-December 2024 at the latest.

Parameters:

1. Similar groups, units, victory conditions to the original scenario.

2. Use EC2003 IOPG or Custom BattleSet.

2. Use HCDB or HCDB2 (HCDB2 would need a custom BattleSet from the BS Builder to make distribution reasonable).

3. Adjust design for increased realism (would Kuzenetsov really carry that many planes in that timeframe, similar for Nimitz, ...)

I peroused lightly the original scenario, very factible. But as first question, what is the pretended time, year/month/day, of the reconstitued scenario? (I don't see the original date, even year).

[TonyE]

The BattleSet itself is late 80s, very early 90s.  Looking at scenario orders of the scenarios in the BattleSet, they seem to follow a chronological order.  Scenario 11.0 talks about 1990s USA military budget cuts and the appearance of the CVN Charles de Gaulle.  de Gaulle was launched in 1994 while she wasn't commissioned until 2001, in the world of the game I would guestimate a 1997 commissioning.  CVN Carl Vinson was 2 years from launch until commissioning in the 1980s for reference.

So should we look at a date of your choice in the range of June 1997 to Dec 1999?  I'd prefer a date where the US CVN has some Tomcats but I haven't cross-referenced those dates.

[broncepulido]

Ok, dont worry, Phoenix phased out 2004, F-14 2006 from memory.

I'll determine a parallel timeline and "concrete" date. In fact from memory Kutznetsov does her first cruise with aircrafts 1994, after the USSR demise. I'II try to adjust anything.

[broncepulido]

2 hours ago, TonyE said:

the range of June 1997 to Dec 1999? 

Confirmed F-14A on USS Nimitz on those dates:

http://gonavy.jp/CV-CVN68f.html

[broncepulido]

Clearly this cruise is choosed:

September 1, 1997 -
March 1, 1998

http://www.uscarriers.net/cvn68deploy.htm

With these squadrons (the same in gonavy.jp), only one squadron of F-14A, with Phoenix, but this does the things easier for the Soviet side:

VF-211
VFA-146
VFA-147
VMFA-314
VAW-122
VS-33
VAQ-138
VQ-5 Det.B
HS-8

And these escorts:

CG 73
CG 57
DDG 65
DD 965
FFG 54
AOE 1
SSN 717

 

[broncepulido]

Some dates on the real timeline, 13 October 1997-14 February 1998 USS Nimitz was in IOPG:

http://www.uscarriers.net/cvn68history.htm

January 22, 1997 The Nimitz departed Bremerton to conduct sea trials and ammunition onload at Port Hadlock after a seven-month, $84 million worth, ESRA at Puget Sound Naval Shipyard.

USS Nimitz participated in a Fleet Exercise (FLEETEX) 97-2, from June 23- July 3, and Joint Tactical Fleet Exercise (JTFEX) 97-2, from July 14-27, off the coast of southern California.

September 1, USS Nimitz departed Bremerton for its twelveth major deployment and around-the-world cruise to the East Coast to begin a multi-year overhaul in the Newport News shipyard.

From Sept. 23-25, the Nimitz participated in exercise Valiant Blitz off Okinawa with the USS Independence.

October 13, CVN 68 entered the Arabian Gulf in support of Operation Southern Watch, completing a 6,000 mile voyage 12 days earlier than originally scheduled.

November 26, USS Nimitz pulled into Jebel Ali, United Arab Emirates, for an eight-day visit to Dubai after participating in exercise Neon Falcon off the coast of Bahrain, Nov. 15-25. From Dec. 6-10, the ship participated in exercise Nautical Artist with the Saudis; and Eager Mace with the Kuwaitis from Dec. 13-24.

February 14, 1998 The nuclear-powered aircraft carrier entered the Mediterranean Sea after transiting Suez Canal.

From Feb. 23-25, the Nimitz conducted ammunition offload with USS Enterprise (CVN 65) and USS Detroit (AOE 4), 750 n.m. into the Atlantic.

March 1, USS Nimitz moored at Naval Station Norfolk's Pier 1 after a six-month Middle East deployment.

[broncepulido]

VAW squadron is actually this one on USS Nimitz on this time period, not VAW-122: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VAW-112

With E-2C Plus Group II from early 1993 (in service 1992-2019)

[broncepulido]

point of interest, recorded casually in my personal notes:

http://harpgamer.com/harpforum/index.php?showtopic=3614&pid=12069&st=0&#entry12069

[TonyE]

Well, I will be happy even if only one squadron of F-14s

[rainman]

This looks to be pretty easy to make, and win as Blue. "Headbutt 1" is similar. Might be more sporting to send the Clemenceau and Ark Royal against the Russians. Want me to make one of those?

[TonyE]

36 minutes ago, rainman said:

Want me to make one of those?

Up to you.  The educational intent doesn't require it to be an even fight so the primary deliverable will be a Nimitz vs. Kuznetsov scenario.  I did slip in the additional ask of adding some submarines.  My first thought on submarines is to add a couple of Los Angeles on the Blue side, each in their own group of course but in support of the CVBG then add a Kilo variant of some sort as well as bring the Victor out of the Kuznetsov group and into its own group.

[Julian]

Greetings Harpgamers,

I am Julian Spencer-Churchill, associate prof at Concordia University (Montreal) in political science, and I have been using this scenario for my class to teach naval operations as part of my undergraduiate introduction to strategic studies class. I have always been disappointed that NATO had no submarines and the Soviet submarine threat was non-existent. I would appreciate any modifications for this scenario that modernizes it. My students have been using Harpoon for almost two decades now in the classroom.

thank-you very much, Julian