Some questions about HCE-ATA, DATA and guns

[pboiler]

I should add that not all aircraft in the HCDB yet have the ECM that they should.

 

I've been working through the entries very slowly but eventually you'll see this reflected in some way or another.

 

So the "test" was very close to what would be predicted. Very interesting to see how the results are calculated. That helps in deciding how many AAM's to launch at different types of aircraft.

 

How is the hit chance determined for antiship missiles?

[jugasa77]

The loadout DATA is the plane's DATA when carrying that loadout.

I am a little confused. Should I add loadout DATA plus plane DATA to get a final score?

[jugasa77]

Operations are easy to understand. But ATA doesn´t affect the final score. Since I've read Hapoon2 Scenario & Database Editor manual.pdf I had thought that you should add ATA value to final score. How ATA works?

 

Is there any HCE e-book manual where you can find those bonus and malus you have used?

[CV32]

jugasa77, if you had a copy of the Harpoon 4.1/High Tide paper rules, I expect you would find this much easier to understand.

[jugasa77]

Hello CV32. I have found here a HCE Editing Database (that works with Harpoon3) you have posted that may help me. You can get it at FAQ section. I am spanish and I am not sure that I can get the Harpoon 4.1 paper rules. I have bought HCE in Internet because it is not available in Spain.

Thank you very much.

[TonyE]

The loadout DATA is the plane's DATA when carrying that loadout.

I am a little confused. Should I add loadout DATA plus plane DATA to get a final score?

 

No, use whichever DATA number is lower. If the loadout DATA is 5.0 and the plane DATA is 15.0, then use 5.0 in your calculations when the plane is using that loadout.

[CV32]

I am spanish and I am not sure that I can get the Harpoon 4.1 paper rules.

 

The DB editing guide will provide plenty of guidance, but if you're interested in the theory behind the rules, a copy of the Harpoon paper rules would be invaluable. They are available from Clash of Arms, and since there are plenty of Spanish players in the Harpoon 4 groups, I don't expect your location would be an obstacle.

[jugasa77]

a copy of the Harpoon paper rules would be invaluable.

Hello CV32. I have found "Harpoon 4 - Modern Tactical Naval Warfare" this morning. It is what I have been looking for. I am going to buy "High Tide" next month.

 

The box contains 210 counters, 4 dice, Rules Book, Data Annex Book, Quickstart Rules and Scenario Book.

 

But I am surprised that there wasn´t any hex-grid map in the box. Is there anything missing?

[TonyE]

a copy of the Harpoon paper rules would be invaluable.

Hello CV32. I have found "Harpoon 4 - Modern Tactical Naval Warfare" this morning. It is what I have been looking for. I am going to buy "High Tide" next month.

 

The box contains 210 counters, 4 dice, Rules Book, Data Annex Book, Quickstart Rules and Scenario Book.

 

But I am surprised that there wasn´t any hex-grid map in the box. Is there anything missing?

 

You are getting the good stuff. The quickstart rules are especially valuable in helping to understand the Rules Book.

[CV32]

But I am surprised that there wasn´t any hex-grid map in the box. Is there anything missing?

 

Sounds like you have everything. I don't think there ever was a hex grid map, but I could be wrong. (Its been some years since I picked up Harpoon 4). One of the paper rules juggernauts, like pmaidhof, would know.

[Warhorse64]

There was no hex grid map in my copy of 4.1 ...

[jugasa77]

There was no hex grid map in my copy of 4.1 ...

I guess I should play the game in 1:36.000 scale maps, without hex grid.

[jugasa77]

I want to share my own formula to calculate DATA for each new loadout you create in the database.

 

1º.- Calculate the total weight of the loadout. "Harpoon 4: Data Annexes" may be useful as reference data.

2º.- Divide the total loadout weight by twice the total payload an aircraft can carry to get LoadRate.

3º.- Apply next formula to get: LoadoutDATA=(1-LoadRate)*PlaneDATA

4º.- You should get an score between MaxPlaneData and HalfPlaneData.

 

Let´s do some practice:

 

We´re going to create a loadout for F-15C Eagle called Escort: DATA=40, MaxPayload=7258kg.

 

1º.- It is loading 4 AIM-120, 4 AIM-9 and 1 ALQ-119 ECM pod.

4*AIM-120: 4*152=608kg

4*AIM-9: 4*85=340kg

1*ALQ-119: 1*259=259kg

Total loadout weight: 608+340+259=1207kg

 

2º.- LoadRate=Loadout Weight/(2*MaxPayload)

LoadRate=1207/(2*7258)=1207/14516=0.083150

 

3º.- LoadoutDATA=(1-LoadRate)*PlaneData

LoadoutDATA= (1-0.083150)*40=0.916850*40=36.674015=37 aprox.

 

4º.- Rounding fractions you get a final LoadoutDATA score of 37 (between 40-20).

[jugasa77]

All Database info comes from HCDB-081124

Hello TonyE. Here´s an example from Harpoon 4 - Quickstart Rules.

 

A P-270 Moskit (SS-N-22) antiship missile acquires and begins to home in on a Spruance class DD. The Spruance has a NATO Sea Sparrow system, with an ATA rating of 4.0 (Ph40%), and a Mk15 Phalanx CIWS. The probability of hit for the Spruance´s defensive systems are:

 

Moskit DATA: 0.5+1.0+1.5=3.0

+1.0 for missile speed (1000 knots or higher)

+1.5 for terminal maneuvers

NATO Sea Sparrow ATA 4.0 (40% Ph)

Differential=4.0-3.0=1.0, which gives a Ph=(30+10)=40% per missile

 

Mk15 Phalanx Ph a close range (0-50%)=80%

-10% for missile speed (1000 knota or higher)

-15% for terminal maneuvers

Final Ph=80-15-10=55% per burst

 

At HCE, what method use firing AAMs when chasing planes, the first or the second?

 

P.D.: It seems that AAMs use the same method that Mk15 Phalanx CIWS is using instead of method used by NATO Sea Sparrow.

[jugasa77]

ATA is your gun rating, aka dogfight rating, gun rating.

Hello noxious. So I guess that ATA is used when dogfighting (trying to get a good position for firing weapons) and when firing cannons to enemy planes.