In my naval reading list I have now arrived at the fiction section with Michael DiMercurios books. I've just started Voyage of the Devilfish where a rogue admiral sends 120 SSNs to a position they can attack with cruise missiles. (I have not finished the book, so the idea is just based on the start). 

This inspired me to try to recreate this scenario with EC2003 Battle for the Atlantic Ocean. The idea was to start out a big blob of SSNs from the Norwegian Sea (Barents seems to be off the map) Have them all transit trough the GIUK gap, north and south of Iceland at high speed to several attack positions off the US east coast and then order them to attack vital targets, like the White House, Norfolk and the Capitol with cruise missiles. Where destruction is a RED total victory. 

On the US side, intelligence (orders) will warn about the inbound SSN's. However all of the fleet will be in port except perhaps a couple of attack subs around Iceland. Other Blue forces would be ASW Aircraft in the US that needs to be deployed to Keflavik, Greenland, Eastern Canada Etc. The docked US attack subs 65-70 in total, maybe a CVBG and FFG/DDG/CG ships will have to be deployed in a picket somewhere to stop the incoming SSNs. A blue victory could perhaps be destroying a flagship Typhoon hidden somewhere north of Iceland or time with intact vital targets.

Timewise a transit from the Norwegian is about 3500nm. That gives about 5-7 in game days to get into attack station at full speed. That probably means the US picket must be on station in less than half that.

I made a test and put one Akula II and one Sierra II off the eastern seaboard, gave nuclear release and fired all SS-N-30 and SS-N-21's at two US bases, both failed to destroy an undefended target, so I think a group of 2-3 subs are required for an attack.

I'm looking for suggestions on what sub classes to use and other ideas/suggestions to make this scenario. Also feel free to steal the whole idea, as I have never made a scenario from scratch and it will take me a very long time to make this.

120 SSNs?

Maybe just start smaller so its easier to write the scenario then build on it?

Perhaps assume your subs got thu and the US have set up a picket line and start form there?

16 hours ago, Palex80 said:

120 SSNs?

On closer look it would have to be a combination of SSNs and SSGs. The red cold war fleet of these two classes apparently was around 140. 

8 hours ago, donaldseadog said:

Maybe just start smaller so its easier to write the scenario then build on it?

Perhaps assume your subs got thu and the US have set up a picket line and start form there?

Starting small is a good suggestion, as it will have to be tested before it gets too big. On the assuming they got trough would resemble too many existing “subs in your face” scenarios. I wanted to stretch the scenario out in time to plan a counter, and be more faithful to the inspiration. 

6 hours ago, aviator said:

On closer look it would have to be a combination of SSNs and SSGs. The red cold war fleet of these two classes apparently was around 140. 

I don't think either side had 120 SSN/SSGN/SS/SSG...and that many subs heading to the East Coast would make one hell of a racket trying to get past the SOSUS lines

10 hours ago, Byron said:

I don't think either side had 120 SSN/SSGN/SS/SSG...and that many subs heading to the East Coast would make one hell of a racket trying to get past the SOSUS lines

I found this little fun fact online: “At its peak in 1980, the Soviet submarine force numbered 480 boats, including 71 fast attacks and 94 cruise and ballistic missile submarines.”

Even if the numbers do add up, they will most likely have to be reduced for practical reasons. Also I’d like to emphasize that it is a fictional scenario that’s right up my ASW enjoying alley. 

aviator, what's the setting date for your scenario?

This would of considerable help in trying to find the right size of your proposed submarine deployment.

Even though the Soviets fielded a large number of submarines, the classes and members of those classes that would have been available at any given time would be considerably smaller. Many units of a given class, for example, would have been under construction, under refit or repair, not on deployment (for any number of reasons), or deployed outside the Northern Fleet at any given point in time.

I would be happy to help you narrow the field (in terms of trying to achieve the best workable solution for both realism and game play) if you have an idea of the date of your scenario.

Scenarios are the lifeblood of the game!

On 12/15/2021 at 4:43 PM, CV32 said:

aviator, what's the setting date for your scenario?

This would of considerable help in trying to find the right size of your proposed submarine deployment.

Even though the Soviets fielded a large number of submarines, the classes and members of those classes that would have been available at any given time would be considerably smaller. Many units of a given class, for example, would have been under construction, under refit or repair, not on deployment (for any number of reasons), or deployed outside the Northern Fleet at any given point in time.

I would be happy to help you narrow the field (in terms of trying to achieve the best workable solution for both realism and game play) if you have an idea of the date of your scenario.

Scenarios are the lifeblood of the game!

1990, dawn of the cold war by the looks of things, when the Soviet navy was at its prime. I'm afraid this might not be as realistic as it is based on a concept from a book that is very much fiction. My basic goal is making it into a big ASW scenario.

1 hour ago, aviator said:

1990, dawn of the cold war by the looks of things, when the Soviet navy was at its prime. I'm afraid this might not be as realistic as it is based on a concept from a book that is very much fiction. My basic goal is making it into a big ASW scenario.

The problem with your numbers is the Soviets kept all manner of military equipment around for decades. I'll bet good money many of these subs were from as far back as WW2 and the 50s and absolutely useless against any modern enemy. The numbers that Brad quoted are much more realistic

aviator, here is a list of Soviet nuclear powered submarines that were commissioned by 1990 and which were serving with the Northern Fleet at the time:

Project 627 (NATO November) SSN: K-3, K-5 (decommissioned in January 1990), K-11, K-21, K-50; decommissioned in April 1990: K-11, K-21, K-50

Pr 658 (Hotel) SSBN: K-16, K-19 (in reserve since 1979, decommissioned April 1990), K-33, K-40, K-145, K-149 (went into reserve fleet in March 1990)

Pr 667A (Yankee) SSBN: K-32 (did not deploy after 1986 due to reactor accident), K-137 Leninets (on missile patrol in the North Atlantic from 19 October to 31 December 1990), K-140 (out of service by 17 December 1990), K-214, K-228, K-241, K-245, K-249, K-253 (Yankee Notch conversion), K-395 (in drydock for Yankee Notch conversion), K-403 (sea trials of towed array pod), K-411 (completed Yankee Stretch conversion in 1990), K-418 (removed from active service in 1989), K-420 (Yankee Sidecar SSGN conversion, but torpedoes only by 1989), K-423, K-426, K-444; decommissioned in April 1990: K-32, K-140, K-426

[Note: In 1988 the director of US naval intelligence Adm Studeman told Congress that Yankee class SSBNs had ceased patrols off the US coast in late 1987 and were instead conducting "combat service patrols against theater targets" (i.e. staying close to home), presumably to compensate for the loss of the SS-20 under the INF Treaty.]

Pr 667B (Delta I) SSBN: K-279, K-385, K-447, K-450, K-457, K-460, K-465, K-472, K-475

Pr 667BD (Delta II) SSBN: K-92, K-182, K-193, K-421

Pr 667BDR (Delta III) SSBN: K-44 (in post drydock sea trials), K-129 (had powerplant failure in June 1989, may not have been available), K-424, K-449 (went to Pacific Fleet in November 1990), K-487, K-496

Pr 667BDRM (Delta IV) SSBN: K-18, -51, -64, -84, -114, -117, -407 (not commissioned until late November 1990)

Pr 670M (Charlie II) SSGN: K-209, -452, -458, -479, -503, -508

Pr 671 (Victor I) SSN: K-38, -53, -69, -147, -306, -323, -367 (did not deploy again after a reactor accident in 1985), -370 (may not have been available for deployment), -398, -438, -462, -481

Pr 671RT (Victor II) SSN: K-371, -387, -467, -488 (never returned to sea after 1988 drydock), -495, -513, -517

Pr 671RTM (Victor III) SSN: K-218, -244, -254, -298, -299, -358, -502, -524, -527

Pr 671RTMK (Improved Victor III) SSN: K-292, K-388, K-138 (operational from January 1990), K-414 (not commissioned until 30 December 1990)

Pr 675 (Echo II) SSGN: К-1 (may not have deployed after 1989), K-22, K-28, K-35 (final deployment in 1989), K-47 (in refuel and overhaul, did not return until 1992), K-74, K-104, K-125, K-128 (not in active service after 1989), K-131 (did not deploy after 1984), K-170 (may not have been operational after turbine accident in 1988), K-172 (stayed in port after reactor leak in June 1989); decommissioned in 1990: K-28, K-74, K-128, K-172 (in April)

Pr 705 (Alfa) SSN: K-123 (received a new reactor in 1990, probably not operational until 1992), K-316, K-373, K-432, K-463, K-493 (all but K-123 decommissioned in April 1990)

Pr 941 (Typhoon) SSBN: TK-12, TK-13, TK-17, TK-20, TK-202, TK-208

Pr 945 (Sierra I) SSN: K-239, K-276

Pr 945A (Sierra II) SSN: K-534 (not commissioned until 26 December 1990)

Pr 949 (Oscar I) SSGN: K-206 Minsky Komsomolets, K-525

Pr 949A (Oscar II) SSGN: K-119, K-132 (transferred to Pacific Fleet in late October 1990), K-148, K-410 (not commissioned until 22 December 1990), K-442 (not commissioned until 28 December 1990)

Pr 971 (Akula) SSN: K-154 (commissioned but reportedly not operational until December 1993), K-157 (commissioned but reportedly not operational until November 1995), K-317 Pantera (not commissioned until 27 December 1990), K-328 (commissioned but reportedly not operational until December 1992), K-461 (commissioned but reportedly not operational until December 1991), K-480

I will further update this list with information about which boats might have actually been available for service.

aviator, I'm excited to see your progress and more importantly for me, to hear your gripes about ASW in the game as you progress.  We know that air dropping torpedoes is quite a challenge.  That is partly mediated by Don Thomas's toolkit ExportDLL.  However, it is reasonable to expect to hand off even more of the micro-management to ExportDLLs or the core game.  

22 hours ago, TonyE said:

aviator, I'm excited to see your progress and more importantly for me, to hear your gripes about ASW in the game as you progress.  We know that air dropping torpedoes is quite a challenge.  That is partly mediated by Don Thomas's toolkit ExportDLL.  However, it is reasonable to expect to hand off even more of the micro-management to ExportDLLs or the core game.  

Thank you Tony, Off topic can admit right now I do have a issue with ordering P-8s to attack, it seems they fire one Longshot and then wanders off in a random direction with no interest to track or prosecute the sub anymore. Historically they would not be part of the cold war anyway though. The scenario is a long term project. I get the impression that the fictional part is not to everyone's taste. After reading some more I see the author actually means 120 SSN's, which is absurdly high. 

8 hours ago, aviator said:

have a issue with ordering P-8s to attack, it seems they fire one Longshot and then wanders off in a random direction with no interest to track or prosecute the sub anymore.

Yes, a bit strange, if the aircraft is within range (and not currently prosecuting the target) of the target it does a "casual attack" then toddles off. If you set its its course to somewhere outside torp range and issue a new attack order it stays on the job.