From Navy Times

 

2 carriers in W. Pacific ahead of Taiwan vote

Kyodo News Service

Posted : Thursday Mar 20, 2008 8:07:03 EDT

 

TAIPEI, Taiwan — Two U.S. aircraft carriers and accompanying vessels have been deployed to the Western Pacific just days before Taiwan’s presidential election amid heightened regional tensions, a U.S. military spokesman told Kyodo News on Thursday.

 

Aircraft carriers Kitty Hawk and Nimitz are both “conducting scheduled, routine operations in the Western Pacific,” said Master Chief Shane Tuck, a spokesman for the U.S. Pacific Command in Hawaii.

 

“With the Nimitz, that carrier’s deployment includes its entire carrier strike group. For the Kitty Hawk, only the USS Curtis Wilbur is accompanying that carrier,” Tuck said by telephone Thursday.

 

The Curtis Wilbur is a guided-missile destroyer.

 

A carrier strike group consists of an array of warships and submarines and is typically deployed for months at a time.

 

The Kitty Hawk left its port in Japan on Tuesday, Taiwan’s Defense Ministry said Wednesday, while the Nimitz strike group’s deployment began Jan. 24, Tuck said.

 

“The vessels are able to respond to any regional contingency any time,” Tuck added.

 

Local media reports claim the deployments are connected to Taiwan’s presidential election on Saturday, traditionally a tense time in the Taiwan Strait, as the self-ruled island claimed by China exercises its democracy.

 

Tuck denied the reports, while Taiwan’s defense spokeswoman Col. Chi Yu Lan declined comment.

 

“This is the U.S.’s business. We’re not in a position to comment,” Chi said Thursday.

 

Asked how close the vessels are to Taiwan, Tuck declined comment.

 

China views Taiwan as a renegade province awaiting unification with the mainland, by force if necessary, and has vowed to attack the island if it formalizes its de facto sovereignty.

 

Coinciding with the election are two referendums that will ask voters whether Taiwan should enter the United Nations, a move China has slammed as “provocative.”

 

Taipei lost its U.N. seat in 1971 to Beijing, which has thwarted Taipei’s subsequent moves to rejoin the world body.

 

Beijing has veto power as a permanent member of the U.N. Security Council.

 

The Kitty Hawk is scheduled for a port call in Hong Kong next month and both carriers are expected to remain near Taiwan for the island’s election and the referendums, local media said.

 

U.S. Pacific Command and Taiwan defense officials declined comment on reports of a port call.

 

“We usually don’t talk about port visits beforehand because of safety issues, just as we don’t talk about troop movements ahead of time,” said another U.S. Pacific Command spokesperson.

 

For June Dreyer, former Asia adviser to the chief of naval operations, the timing of the deployments is revealing.

 

“Although these deployments will doubtless be described as for routine maneuvers, the timing is suspicious,” said Dreyer, now a political scientist at the University of Miami.

 

The Kitty Hawk, Dreyer said, has a history of deployment to the Taiwan Strait or otherwise near the island during tense periods.

 

In 1996, the Kitty Hawk was deployed near Taiwan in response to Chinese military exercises preceding the island’s presidential election that year.

 

China had fired unarmed missiles to within kilometers of the island in maneuvers widely perceived as a move to intimidate voters and curb independence rhetoric by then-Taiwanese President Lee Teng-hui.

I hope both of these are riding together because a single ship to cover a Carrier even in very peacefull times seems kind of odd.

I hope both of these are riding together because a single ship to cover a Carrier even in very peacefull times seems kind of odd.

 

It does seem odd, and more than a little disconcerting. Especially since I don't think the Kitty Hawk and Nimitz are traveling together. The Nimitz CSG was in the East China Sea as late as 16 March, conducting an Expeditionary Strike Force (ESF) exercise with the Essex Expeditionary Strike Group (ESG).

 

Meanwhile, as this article indicates, the Battle Cat didn't leave port until Tuesday, 18 March.

 

They may be rendezvousing with each other or other combatants at some point, but until then, Kitty Hawk seems a little exposed.

They did that alot with the nuke carriers going at flank with a nuke cruiser right and leaving the other ships to catch up?

I hope both of these are riding together because a single ship to cover a Carrier even in very peacefull times seems kind of odd.

 

It does seem odd, and more than a little disconcerting. Especially since I don't think the Kitty Hawk and Nimitz are traveling together. The Nimitz CSG was in the East China Sea as late as 16 March, conducting an Expeditionary Strike Force (ESF) exercise with the Essex Expeditionary Strike Group (ESG).

 

Meanwhile, as this article indicates, the Battle Cat didn't leave port until Tuesday, 18 March.

 

They may be rendezvousing with each other or other combatants at some point, but until then, Kitty Hawk seems a little exposed.

 

I think that is logical, given the situation. More ships are probably even already on station near Japan or Austrialia and are enroute. It will take some doing to sink two CVBGs anyway.

Yeah but a CV with a solo escort with intel on where its going to be headed all it takes is a few subs sitting at the botom and a torpedo spread. Even the best ASW platform alone cant cover a 360 degree arc while escorting another ship. its just interesting

Yeah but a CV with a solo escort with intel on where its going to be headed all it takes is a few subs sitting at the botom and a torpedo spread. Even the best ASW platform alone cant cover a 360 degree arc while escorting another ship. its just interesting

 

 

Well, let's face it: absent a state of war between the US and PRC, the entire US Navy could be escorting the Kittyhawk, and she would be not one whit safer than she would be all by her lonesome. All the escorts could do would be to sink any attacker(s) after the fact. They couldn't prevent the shot from being taken.

Well, let's face it: absent a state of war between the US and PRC, the entire US Navy could be escorting the Kittyhawk, and she would be not one whit safer than she would be all by her lonesome. All the escorts could do would be to sink any attacker(s) after the fact. They couldn't prevent the shot from being taken.

 

Debatable. Yeah, the S-3B Viking's ASW mission is gone. And, yeah, ASW training is hurting those days. But there are still helicopters flying and there is still (as far as we know) usually an SSN assigned to each carrier strike group. But I get your point regarding the sub threat.

I think the mindset is that even if the carrier found a submarine, the carrier would not be allowed to kill the submarine until the submarine fired some torps. That has always bothered me, good way to lose multiple carriers on day 1 of the war. Almost too bad there isn't a precedent for killing subs with xx nm of a carrier, battleship, whatever the arbitrary classification is for the fictional rule.

Well, let's face it: absent a state of war between the US and PRC, the entire US Navy could be escorting the Kittyhawk, and she would be not one whit safer than she would be all by her lonesome. All the escorts could do would be to sink any attacker(s) after the fact. They couldn't prevent the shot from being taken.

 

Debatable. Yeah, the S-3B Viking's ASW mission is gone. And, yeah, ASW training is hurting those days. But there are still helicopters flying and there is still (as far as we know) usually an SSN assigned to each carrier strike group. But I get your point regarding the sub threat.

 

Peacetime RoE. The sub could drive right into the middle of the battlegroup, nothing anyone can do until it starts shooting ...

Peacetime RoE. The sub could drive right into the middle of the battlegroup, nothing anyone can do until it starts shooting ...

 

Yes, I knew that's what you were getting at. I would not, however, want to take a guess at the ROE for such a situation in a time of crisis, nor would I want to be a crew member of that submarine.

Yes of course the CV or its escorts can't shoot at a sub in times of peace, but no carrier group likes to be stalked and have a sub just surface inside its inner ring of defenders. Its the game thats supposed to be played in real life. Country A has carriers and they are worth a lot of money so it protects them with escorts country B has a few subs usually worth less then the carriers air wing. Country B mission is to see if he can sneek a sub in close just so he can know if its possible, just in case... Country A has the job of not letting it happen, sometimes country A plays stupid and pretends not to see the sub just so country B doesn't know country A's true capabilities so in case something bad does happen later on country A can shove it up country B's @%%. Thats the way the game has been played for generations now. The way you win future wars is by how you train and play the game in peacetime, better yet your enemy knows you can kick its rear and just doesn't bother/ Nothing a sub skipper loves to hear more then an active ping by a escort or a dipped sonar right above his head...

Odds are, the other ships in the Kitty Hawk's escort group are already either on station or in enroute. And just because you know the destination and point of disembarkment doesn't always mean that you have clue one what course it will set to get there.