Once again, please explain it to me like I'm four.

1) Does ECM necessarily always mean jammers?

2) How does the human player turn them on?

3) Under what circumstances does the AI turn them on?

4a) Does the lightning bolt indicate the jammer or the jamee?

4b) How can you tell who's being jammed by whom?

5) Is there a way of cutting through jamming?

6) How come my Prowlers are usually the first casualities in a group to SAMs?

Thanks,

Larry G

Once again, please explain it to me like I'm four.

1) Does ECM necessarily always mean jammers?

 

No. It can also mean chaff or flares. But you don't see the jamming symbol (lightning bolt) for those, and they operate only in point defense (eg. self-protection).

 

2) How does the human player turn them on?

 

You have to turn on your radar.

 

3) Under what circumstances does the AI turn them on?

 

When he activates his radar.

 

4a) Does the lightning bolt indicate the jammer or the jamee?

 

It indicates the 'jammee', the sensor that is being subjected to the jamming effect.

 

4b) How can you tell who's being jammed by whom?

 

That's not readily apparent, but a little experience will tell you which platforms are the jamming types.

 

5) Is there a way of cutting through jamming?

 

Well, I don't think there are any electronic counter countermeasures (ECCM) at work here, so the only way to counter jamming is by pure radiated power (ie. the strength or range capabilities of the radar being jammed).

 

6) How come my Prowlers are usually the first casualities in a group to SAMs?

 

Tony might have something to add to this (well, to all of it, really), but I expect they're being seen as priority targets by the AI.

Why are you putting prowlers into SAM range? They really should be used the loadout with the most fuel and jammers (ie no weapons) and in stand-off mode. If there is a SAM site that has enough range to hit a prowler loitering at stand-off jamming range, then generally you would need to use strikers at very low using long range ARM's to kill it.

I hate to show my ignorance here, but are you guys talking about HCE or H3? I don't recall ever seeing a lightning bolt in HCE.

 

Buddha

HCE. Yep, lightning bolts have been inserted to show jamming effect. You must be looking at a pre HCE version of Classic or just haven't noticed them?

HCE. Yep, lightning bolts have been inserted to show jamming effect. You must be looking at a pre HCE version of Classic or just haven't noticed them?

 

I know I've got the latest Beta (2008.023), so I just must have missed them somehow. Is there a setup function to turn them on and off? If so, I may have turned them off without knowing it.

 

Buddha

Is there a setup function to turn them on and off?

 

Nope.

Why are you putting prowlers into SAM range? They really should be used the loadout with the most fuel and jammers (ie no weapons) and in stand-off mode. If there is a SAM site that has enough range to hit a prowler loitering at stand-off jamming range, then generally you would need to use strikers at very low using long range ARM's to kill it.

Try MEDC 6 or 7. Some Red bases have SAMs with a 160nm range, well out of the range of the HARMS.

It was my understanding that the jamming aircraft have to be part of the group they're protecting. Maybe I'm wrong. I've sent in mixes of A-6 Guided or AntiRadar and EA-6 either Patrol or AntiRadar. It's always some of the Prowlers that get picked off first.

Very Low altitude just results in a lot of crashed aircraft.

Try MEDC 6 or 7. Some Red bases have SAMs with a 160nm range, well out of the range of the HARMS. It was my understanding that the jamming aircraft have to be part of the group they're protecting. Maybe I'm wrong. I've sent in mixes of A-6 Guided or AntiRadar and EA-6 either Patrol or AntiRadar. It's always some of the Prowlers that get picked off first. Very Low altitude just results in a lot of crashed aircraft.

 

The Prowlers will provide some degree of EW self-protection when combined in a group with other aircraft, but keep in mind we're talking about a simple reduction in enemy hit probability percentage. It's not a sure thing, and probably not worth flying a very valuable Prowler into harm's way (as you've discovered the hard way). You're better off using them in the standoff offensive jamming role if you can afford it. Also, you're losing them at Vlow altitude because of the lack of a terrain following/terrain avoidance flag. (I expect you know that).

From my understanding, active jamming is not to "protect" a group but to weaken the enemies systems. I've always used them on their own (maybe with a tanker as usually their range is limited) to degrade the performance of planes moving towards my groups.

For what it's worth to this discussion, when I was an AIC on the Midway, we used to run what we called MASs (Maritime Air Superiority) where an EA-6B would hold hands with an F-4 simulating an ASCM platform and weapon, and I'd attempt to intercept the "ASCM" after separation from the platform with another F-4. If the EA-6B is anywhere near as effective against enemy radar systems as it was against ours, the enemy is going to have a rough time of it.

 

Buddha

Jamming aircraft do not need to be in the same group as they planes they are 'protecting', that was true in older versions of the game (HC Gold was that way), when we re-did the ECM that requirement was removed. However, the farther away the jammer from the protected, the lower the effect (and it lowers quickly!).

 

There is a burn-thru range dependent upon the range of the jammer and the range of the radar trying to break thru.

 

Standoff jamming (to reduce the range of enemy radars) is modelled, as is local protection jamming making nearby units more difficult to localize, and finally the reduction in hit probability as Brad mentioned.

 

There are threads here and there on the topic, probably an in-depth one someone here on HarpGamer in the general HC forum.

1. Does the ECM ratings for individual aircraft still work. ie: representing individual jammers and decreasing the probability of hits by SAM/AtoA missiles? I noticed in the platform editor that all the aircraft ecm ratings are zero. Perhaps dealt with in the loadout?

 

2. I played my first game in HCE the other day and was getting almost 100% hits with air-t0-air missiles. This is a surprise as in Harpoon Classic the kill ratio was pretty low.

 

3. I noticed that in the platform display ships now have generic jammers and decoys. But I didn't notice them listed in the platform editor. Did I miss them or are they hard-coded?

 

Steven

1. Does the ECM ratings for individual aircraft still work. ie: representing individual jammers and decreasing the probability of hits by SAM/AtoA missiles? I noticed in the platform editor that all the aircraft ecm ratings are zero. Perhaps dealt with in the loadout?

 

Yes, right now we are modeling airborne electronic warfare (EW) equipment in the Loadout, i.e. carrying an ECM or countermeasures pod, or equipped with a built-in EW suite. The ECM fields in the Aircraft annex are not being used.

 

2. I played my first game in HCE the other day and was getting almost 100% hits with air-t0-air missiles. This is a surprise as in Harpoon Classic the kill ratio was pretty low.

 

The AAMs adopt the ratings found in the Harpoon 4.1/High Tide paper rules. There is a wide variation in performance among missiles of various types, but the predominant missile that has a very high rating is the AIM-120 AMRAAM. Was this the one you were using?

 

3. I noticed that in the platform display ships now have generic jammers and decoys. But I didn't notice them listed in the platform editor. Did I miss them or are they hard-coded?

 

The introduction of EW modeling into the Ships annex is something new to HCE. They're not hard coded, so have to be created in the Mounts/Weapons annexes and then added to each Ship.

Brad:

 

1. Your reply explained the loadout arrangement for individual ecm.

 

2. Your right most of the air-to-air missiles were Aim-120 Cs and Ds. Although I lost 2 F-35s from an unseen attack.

 

3. I assume the ship-based ecm/decoys operate automatically as the sam system does. Which leads me to.... SAMs/ABMs.

 

4. I had a scenario in HC2002 where Kuwait City was protected by PAT-3 missiles. They would not engage Iranian scuds, even though the scuds were detected at a distance. Air-to-air missiles from the CAP would engage, even though the altitude of the scud was above the altitude limit of the AIM-120 and AIM-9Ms. If I remember correctly in the original program there was a 30 second detection update window. IE the program would calculate detection for radar/sonar on a 30 second basis. If this is correct, weapons fired in between this detection update would not be detected or engaged????

 

Thanks for the feedback.

 

Steven