When I play Blue (U.S.) forces I get a bunch of Kingfish missles in the face. When I play red, F-14 Pheonix down all my planes? What can I do?

 

I'm usually playing a GUIK scenario (in Harpoon Ultimate Commanders Edition I think) that tends to have U.S. carriers. I recently played a scenario (don't have the name with me) that gives me 2 U.S. Carriers steaming east towards the Kola Pennisula.

 

Auto formation air patrols are decent but not great. I usually take half the number of AAW airplanes I have and put them on patrol via the formation editor. Am I correct in doing this? ie does this mean that there will be continous coverage? Half the aircraft in the air and when they land the other half replaces them?

 

If also tend to take F-18s and put them in the air to air mode to get extra planes in the air.

 

I tend to get owned by massive Russian missle strikes.

 

The other strategy I use is to leave a few planes on CAP then put up a mass of fighters 12-24 about 200 miles ahead of my carrier battlegroup. I manually fly this group. I think this tends to work best.

 

I tried playing the same scenario as Red. And F-14's are just demolishing me.

 

Any tips and tricks for a blue carrier group?

David,

 

I tend to not use the Auto Formation Air Patrols. There are 2 ways you can set air patrols.

 

1. You can set air patrols up in the Formation Editor when you start your scenario. I tend to do ASW patrols there.

2. Launching planes and setting the patrol points manually. This is my preference. I try to get my F-14's out 300 to 400 miles from my Carriers. I use them as CAP (Combat Air Patrol) until I shoot down a bunch of enemy planes and then go on the offensive. I use my F-18's as a backup to the F-14's but keep them closer to the carrier group for shooting down missiles.

 

If you can provide the name of the scenario you were playing I can look ay it and give you some additional advice.

 

Have a great day,

Eric

David,

also have a look here :

tactics

I pretty much do what Eric does. I would suggest avoiding turning on the radars of your carrier group. Instead, send an E-2 Hawkeye 50+nm away from the carrier group and then turn its radar on. Manage your F-14s manually on long range patrols but I do leave some F/A-18 in formation for point defense. Ideally you'll have your F-14s a few hundred nautical miles towards the expected threat so that they can shoot down the launching aircraft instead of the incoming missiles. Ideally then there won't be any incoming missiles...

Thanks I did have my Carrier Group's Radar on which is probably a big no-no. I'll check the above links too, thank you for your help!

hi David,

pretty much what the others already said, what I thought to add is the "Why?" and background. I was thinking how much of what Eric or Tony or I would describe is actual carrier air defense "experience" and how much is that we by now learned to "game" the game.

 

So the points which an actual battlegroup commander could probably put to some use are:

• As said, you want to keep your ship radars off as much as possible.
  This is because active radars can be detect with ESM gear over a much greater distance than the radar's actual detection range. By going active you are giving away your ship's position (or bearing at least) to enemy air units beyond your radar range. Even our game AI might just fire few AS-6-es down a bearing to see if there are any takers.
• On the other hand SAMs do need directors, so if it's already raining Kingfishes, light up your Ticonderoga & co.
• Yes, you want the bombers not the missiles. Set up your AEW radar screen and fighter CAP at distances from the main group so you can intercept bombers before launch. Generally down the bearing of the enemy air bases, but beware, the enemy might just use cunning.
• You might also try to defend by denying the enemy detection of your ships, e.g. you design your CAP to intercept outside of expected detection ranges. The risk here is that a lurking sub can also provide firing solution for the bombers.
• And of course, you need to protect your AEW bird, especially if it is further out from the SAM screen of the main body and within theoretical range of enemy fighters.
• Try to find the minimum required size for your AAW patrols and keep good handful of fighters in Ready 5. It's embarrassing to sink with 24 refueling Tomcats on board.

Then there are points more related to the game implementation than real life tactics

• Ideally we would use the formation editor to set up the AEW and AAW patrols but there are some limitations due to the interface design which make manual patrols preferred.
• E.g. you could use the formation rings to place your AEW patrol, but when you stretch the ring ranges to +200nm you will inevitable get a patrol quadrant (octadrant? ) over 2500 square nm large and air patrols are not holding station, so your AEW will be wondering around a lot, someone might slip by. For the same reason it is very hard to make sure with formation that your CAP stays close to your AEW and protects it.
• So manage your fleet defense patrols manually, fortunately both the Hawkeye and the Tomcat has very long on station patrol time.
• Beware of LDSD (lack of)! I think in all battlesets, except the original GIUK and NACV, the E-2C Hawkeye radar does not have "Look down shoot down" capability, e.g. it suffers penalty detecting targets lower than itself (ground clutter). This translates to the game as detection ranges are halved if the target flies med or low (your AEW is on high). Put your Tomcats' wonderful radars to good use (these are always LDSD), lit them up and increase your chances to detect low flying bogies early.
• Ahh, yes, the most important, thanks Brad. There is the lingering suspicion that if your Hawkeye is part of the formation with radars active then Red will correctly surmise through ESM detection the position of your ships even if those stay passive. (The AI "cheats", does not translate to RL, beat it via manual patrols.)

happy fishing!

Grumble

One of the most significant drawbacks to using 'in-formation' air patrols while playing Blue carrier groups, is that active radars will give away the position of your group.

 

In doing so, you've given away to the Russkies - free of charge - one of the things they would otherwise have to work hard to achieve.

 

Working from the Red side, you can now see one of the obstacles you need to overcome - locate the enemy.

 

The carrier's BARCAP is another obstacle. The best way to beat them is by a combination of jamming and deception, and attack from multiple axes using these tools.

"Try to find the minimum required size for your AAW patrols and keep good handful of fighters in Ready 5. It's embarrassing to sink with 24 refueling Tomcats on board."

 

Totally been there. Had to restart from a save spot out of embarrassment.

Thanks for all the tips and tricks. I'm definitely going to try some of this stuff out tonight. Maybe try a patrol of AAW planes with half up and set as a continus patrol.

Wait till you get to trying to defend a carrier battle group before the advent of the F-14/Phoenix combo.

 

(And, as some would argue, after).

Totally been there. Had to restart from a save spot out of embarrassment.

 

Welcome to the club.

Thanks for all the great tips and help!

 

I pushed out my CAP about 100-150 miles further out from my carrier battlegroup and turned off most of my radars. The results were amazing! I felt like a rock star. I didn't use any AAW patrols from the formation editor. I would usually send out 6-12 F-14 Tomcats and the same amount of F-18 Hornets with AMRAAM's manually and it was very effective!

 

I ended up losing 6 aircraft and taking out over 250 enemy planes, a few ships and the odd sub here and there. I was astonished at how much the above stuff worked. Thanks so much to everyone here!