Being new to Harpoon using armor as anything other than air targets, I promptly ran into trouble while trying to direct them to attack other ground targets... so, I'm wondering where I went wrong.

 

Specifically what happened was that I had some groups consisting mainly of M1 tanks, and I was trying to attack an AI group of T-72 tanks. Each time I tried to order them to attack the T-72s, it would simply inform me that my range was 2nm, and the target group was, say, 9nm away. (There was no typical dialog asking whether I wanted them to close and attack). Meanwhile, they continued trundling on towards the enemy tanks, and pretty soon the T-72s started "plinking" my M1s. I tried to return the favor, but still got the out-of-range message!

 

Thinking that maybe the T-72s had a longer range than the M1s, I checked the unit displays and found that both types of tanks have the same range (2nm) for thier main guns (as I would've expected, intuitively). So, the question remains: How to I get my armor to attack the AI armor? And howcum they can shoot my tanks while I'm still out of range of their tanks??

 

Note: The T-72s in question were "attached" to an airfield, which was the only relevent target that was offered in the attack dialog; Is this why it thinks that my tanks are out of range (since the airfield is further away than the attached tanks)? I always thought that it went by the closest element of a formation, but...? If this is the case, how should I manage the attack?

Being new to Harpoon using armor as anything other than air targets, I promptly ran into trouble while trying to direct them to attack other ground targets... so, I'm wondering where I went wrong. Specifically what happened was that I had some groups consisting mainly of M1 tanks, and I was trying to attack an AI group of T-72 tanks. Each time I tried to order them to attack the T-72s, it would simply inform me that my range was 2nm, and the target group was, say, 9nm away. (There was no typical dialog asking whether I wanted them to close and attack). Meanwhile, they continued trundling on towards the enemy tanks, and pretty soon the T-72s started "plinking" my M1s. I tried to return the favor, but still got the out-of-range message! Thinking that maybe the T-72s had a longer range than the M1s, I checked the unit displays and found that both types of tanks have the same range (2nm) for thier main guns (as I would've expected, intuitively). So, the question remains: How to I get my armor to attack the AI armor? And howcum they can shoot my tanks while I'm still out of range of their tanks?? Note: The T-72s in question were "attached" to an airfield, which was the only relevent target that was offered in the attack dialog; Is this why it thinks that my tanks are out of range (since the airfield is further away than the attached tanks)? I always thought that it went by the closest element of a formation, but...? If this is the case, how should I manage the attack?

 

I expect your problem here was related to the fact that gunnery ranges are calculated from center to center of formations.

I expect your problem here was related to the fact that gunnery ranges are calculated from center to center of formations.

 

Yeah, that's pretty much what I was thinking, too... Only thing that puzzles me about that is, does it apply only to the player's gun ranges? If not, then I'm still scratching my head over why they can shoot me, but I can't shoot them. (It ain't fair!! <sounds of rampant foot-stomping>)

 

Seriously, though, if this is the case, is it even possible to use player armor groups to attack comparable AI armor groups? Or, are they pretty much only defensive units - or in my case, just "tank fodder"?

Yeah, that's pretty much what I was thinking, too... Only thing that puzzles me about that is, does it apply only to the player's gun ranges? If not, then I'm still scratching my head over why they can shoot me, but I can't shoot them. (It ain't fair!! <sounds of rampant foot-stomping>)

 

It applies to both sides.

 

Seriously, though, if this is the case, is it even possible to use player armor groups to attack comparable AI armor groups? Or, are they pretty much only defensive units - or in my case, just "tank fodder"?

 

Yep, not only possible, but ordinary.

The Stalintc designed scenario "Operation Philippine Crunch" is a very interesting small scenario, with plenty of land forces action:

http://harpgamer.com/harpforum/index.php?a...mp;showfile=297

 

I've played it many times, and I will do it many times more.

And was my motivation for the development of more detailed Tanks/AFVs, SP air defence and ground units in my personal databases.

Seriously, though, if this is the case, is it even possible to use player armor groups to attack comparable AI armor groups? Or, are they pretty much only defensive units - or in my case, just "tank fodder"?

 

Here is where the AI has one of its few advantages over you. It checks every game second to see if the weapons are in range, a human player rarely does the same. Engagements at such short ranges demand lots of attention in the current builds.

Seriously, though, if this is the case, is it even possible to use player armor groups to attack comparable AI armor groups? Or, are they pretty much only defensive units - or in my case, just "tank fodder"?

 

Here is where the AI has one of its few advantages over you. It checks every game second to see if the weapons are in range, a human player rarely does the same. Engagements at such short ranges demand lots of attention in the current builds.

 

With other types of groups (aircraft particularly), the GE manages when to release the first volley of an attacking player's group, usually in time for the player to start micro-managing the engagement before the AI "plasters" the aircraft. I notice that armor groups do not have this same behavior (because they cannot be ordered to attack a target unless they are already in range). This certainly lends itself to the situation that you describe... so I'm curious why armor groups don't have this "close-and-attack" function like most other types of groups have?

 

In a related matter, why is it that the "end behavior" of sub groups on an attack mission differs from that of aircraft and surface groups? At least in my case, a sub group that has been ordered to close and attack will go through all the normal motions of closing, adjusting speed if needed, and so forth - but then it doesn't commence the attack. Instead, it just does nothing until eventually the "lack of course" notification occurs, at which time it may or may not still be possible to commence the attack manually from the resulting position. I have always wondered why the sub groups work this way. Even though I'm aware of this behavior, I still tend to "forget" about the sub attacks, due to being distracted to other activities while the subs are closing their range. This is no doubt due to my being accustomed to getting the attack notification in the cases of other group types, which I have to deal with much more often. Anyway, just wondering why the subs work differently...