It seems that these answers are pretty well know by many people, so can someone tell me what are the range of ESM, RWR, FLIR, IRST and TCS codes that can be seen in the Aicraft Annex, under the "Flags" field.

Thx by advance.

Here is the info from a very old version of the Harpoon Paper rules. They may have been superseded by later versions.

 

IRST - 20nm

FLIR - 20nm for surface contacts (35nm if previously detected) Subs during snorkel operations at 10nm

Ship IR - 20nm

ESM - P(detection) = 80% at 110% of the radar horizon between the two units

Detects missile radar homer at 5nm

RWR - only tells that they are under attack from Radar-guided weapons

 

Cheers,

Herman

Another question about the aircraft annex.

 

On the ATA and DATA category values. How do you know what is the correct value to use?

 

Up to this point I've been using the values of aircraft with similar profiles as the one I am adding, but is there any way to know what is actually correct?

 

I apologize if these has been covered and I have overlooked it. Also, if there is a guide/FAQ to the different values, could someone please point me that way as I have not found one.

Hi, Akula ! Welcome to HarpGamer.

 

The ATA and DATA values are taken from the Harpoon 4 paper rules, and are essentially intended to model an aircraft's "unloaded" and "loaded" performance, particularly in terms of agility or maneuverability. They are used in calculating the outcome of missile engagements.

 

I don't have my H4 rule book in front of me today, but if you're unfamiliar with these rules, I can try a more detailed explanation.

 

Regarding an FAQ for database values, there's definitely a need for one. Maybe someone will get around to producing it.

Now I thought that the DATA (defensive air to air) applied to an aircraft that was evading a missile (or another aircraft) and the ATA value (at least for Harpoon Classic) applied for the equivalent of gun use by the attacking aircraft (Harpoon 3 represents the aircraft gun more specifically as a mount entity, and the ATA more like Classic's DATA). Am I making the correct assumption?

Well, since I never played the paper rules even a quick and dirty explanation of how it works would be helpfull, if you don't mind.

 

My experience with Harpoon started with the old Three-Sixty game back in the early 90s (man its been a long time). I just stumbled across HC2002 one day and remembering how fun the old game was, I got it. Lots of improvements, but the one thing that I liked about the old classic game is still there...its realistic without being overly complicated. You can still sit down and play out a scenario in an hour or two and have fun with it, and having fun is the most important part.

From Harpoon 4.1, Rule 6.3.1:

 

"Aircraft have two Defensive ATA (air-to-air) ratings. One is used when the aircraft is carrying a full external load of ordnance. The second is used when the aircraft is lightly loaded or is unloaded. The defensive ratings for aircraft are based on factors such as relative age, wing loading, and thrust-to-weight ratio. ... "

 

"Air-to-air missiles and cannon are also given ratings on the same scale, called Offensive ATA ratings. An air-to-air weapon's offensive rating is based on its probability of hit and its lethality, given a hit".

 

In HCG, the weapon's ATA rating is used to determine the PH (probability of hit).

 

From Rule 6.3.1:

 

"As long as the plane's external armament is made up of only air-to-air ordnance (e.g. missiles, gun pods), it uses the lightly loaded/unloaded rating ..."

 

and from Rule 6.3.3:

 

"Once an aircraft reaches firing position for its guns or missiles, subtract the defender's defensive ATA rating from the rating of the attacking weapon".

 

I hope this helps to at least give you some idea of what the ratings mean. You can probably appreciate that there is much more to the Rule, and H4.1, in general.

Yes, that helps quite a bit, thank you. It is one thing to know a number to put in, it is another to understand why the modifier is the way it is.

 

And yes, the paper rules are undoubtedly more complex than the computer version. I do play pen and paper Battletech, so I can appreciate the differences quite well.

Regarding an FAQ for database values, there's definitely a need for one. Maybe someone will get around to producing it. 

That effort has been undertaken by yours truly, and I'm happy today to announce the completion and posting of the Aircraft Appendix to the PE User's Guide.

 

The Aircraft Appendix is the first in what will be a series of documents exploring other aspects of the PE in deeper detail than what we are able to offer in the original HCGold PE User's Guide.

 

When Tony Eischens and I wrote the PE User's Guide for HCGold almost two years ago, we knew then that it was only a beginning, a very basic introduction to Jon Riemer's wonderfully produced Platform Editor for Harpoon Classic Gold. It was always our plan to provide a more comprehensive companion to the PE, and since that time, Tony has made some significant changes to both the DB structure and Jon's original Platform Editor as well, thereby making the need for this effort all the more pressing.

 

The Aircraft Appendix currently details two elements for data entry in the Aircraft Annex of the HCDB: Aircraft Flags and RCS (Radar Cross Section). If, in using the PE, you find you are unsure of any of the other Aircraft Annex fields, please post to this forum and we will try to assist you. If it turns out that we see a need to further expand the Aircraft Appendix as the result of your questions, we will certainly do so at the earliest opportuniy. You can also expect to see additional appendices posted in the weeks ahead, so please keep an eye on this forum for future announcements.

 

To view the Aircraft Appendix, just visit the HarpGamer Home Page and use the Tools & FAQ navigation button, then click on the listed link for the appendix. You can also use this link: Aircraft Appendix to PE User's Guide

Bruce deserves a great deal of credit for diving headlong into this project, and I, for one, am very appreciative of his effort in doing so. The Platform Editor (PE) can be a maze at times, even for me as author of the HCDB. This guide has been badly needed for some time, and I expect it will be an extremely valuable tool for all of us database authors, designers, and "tinkerers" (if I can coin such a word). So, thanks, Bruce. Then, again, we shouldn't be surprised. You have been an asset to the sim, and to the community, for as long as I can remember. Kudos.

... for diving headlong into this project

So that's what that "thud" was, and that's why I woke up with an egg on my dome this morning!

 

Thanks, Brad, your words are very kind, and the feeling is quite mutual. You bring only good things to this forum, our website, and for many years now, to the Harpoon community at large. Thanks for all you have done, and continue to do, for all of us.

Just adding to that as an end user, the guide is very helpful when in comes to adding in aircraft and understanding things. It was really needed and very much appreciated.

 

The PE can be very confusing for someone with little or no database experience (in my case it was pure determination that made me keep at it) and having a more in depth guide can only help those that want to add to the game. A more in depth FAQ/Users Guide will help those with less experience.

Just adding to that as an end user, the guide is very helpful when in comes to adding in aircraft and understanding things.  It was really needed and very much appreciated.

Glad to hear you're finding the Aircraft Appendix a helprful resource and thanks for your feedback.

 

If you, or anyone reading this, have any suggestions for improving the aircraft section further, please post your thoughts here, or contact us via

webmaster@harpgamer.com . I can't promise when we might incorporate anyone's suggestions, but we can certainly compile a wish list for future consideration.

 

This project took some time to get around to doing, but now that it's underway, users can look to see more of the same for ships, subs, weapons, sensors, and so on.

 

I'm currently looking at the data entry screen for ships, and expect to put the companion document together this weekend, or soon thereafter. Please keep an eye on this forum for an announcement when it's ready and uploaded to the website.

The PE guide helps me too. Remembering what everything does is difficult so the guide is a nice quick reference. Thanks

 

 

Sincerely,

Tony Eischens

HC Programmer

CIC Lead Programmer

Great! Someone finally start it!

The page looks very attractive with those screenshots, a very nice reference.

I have somewhere a document with the datas i have collected day by day about PE, i'll share it ASAP, at least as soon as i'll have more time (i just came back from 2 weeks without my girlfriend, so i have "other" things in mind actually )