Using Tony's new Battle Set Creator (Thanx Tony), I designed a Caribbean BS and wanted to try a scenario involving the USCG and modern day pirates. The problem I ran into is that the Red pirate unit cannot be ordered to attack a Green merchant. If I use a Blue merchant, the attack goes OK, but the merchant also acts as an extension of Blue sensors, and the pirate is immediately reported upon detection. It seems in the real world no report would likely be made until after an actual attack/distress call.

 

This is probably similar to a report I made to MANTIS regarding Harpoon BOL shots overflying neutrals and hitting hostiles, even though the neutral was beyond the seeker turn on range. When I ran the MET Trainer in Saudi Arabia, the students were constantly hitting merchants by mistake under circumstances just such as these. I can't say I know of it ever happening for real, but the possibility certainly seems to exist.

 

Buddha

Buddha,

Can you explain the attack going Ok part a little more.

 

When the AI is blue, the attack against green proceeds?

 

When the AI is red, the attack against green proceeds?

 

The correct behavior is for the AI not to launch at neutral units. Players should be able to launch at neutrals.

 

We'll deal with BOL after this one is clarified.

Buddha,

Can you explain the attack going Ok part a little more.

 

When the AI is blue, the attack against green proceeds?

 

When the AI is red, the attack against green proceeds?

 

The correct behavior is for the AI not to launch at neutral units. Players should be able to launch at neutrals.

 

We'll deal with BOL after this one is clarified.

Sure, Tony:

 

The attack won't proceed in either case, as far as I can determine.

 

The scenario I want to create involves pirates, Red in this case, attacking a neutral Merchant ship (Green) resulting in a response by Blue units after a distress call. The problem is that when the pirates are AI, they don't attack the Green unit, and if the pirates are controlled by the player, there is no provision to attack the green unit (Pressing Attack doesn't list the Green unit as an available target). In other words, the AI basically ignores the Green units, and the player cannot attack them. This can be avoided by making the merchant either Red or Blue as opposed to Green, but the problem then is that the program then treats the merchant as a member of the side to which it is assigned, with instant contact reporting capabilities as if it were a Link 11 PU.

 

As to the BOL situation, which I've already posted on Mantis, it is that SSM attacks basically ignore neutral shipping. If a Blue unit has a hostile ESM cut bearing 270 for example, and the player launches a BOL attack on that bearing with a seeker turn on range of 25 miles, the weapon will ignore and overfly a Green unit at 270 35 miles and will only detect and attack any Red units found on that bearing after the seeker turns on. I only mention that here since the situations seem as if they may be related.

 

If I'm beginning to sound like a Grognard here, I apologize. My only intent is to help make Harpoon as realistic and enjoyable as possible for all hands. I also see Harpoon as an excellent training aid in the real world, and I think these suggestions will help there as well. We used it precisely for that at the MET. It's already superior to NavTag in my estimation.

 

Thanx:

 

Buddha

In other words, the AI basically ignores the Green units, and the player cannot attack them. This can be avoided by making the merchant either Red or Blue as opposed to Green, but the problem then is that the program then treats the merchant as a member of the side to which it is assigned, with instant contact reporting capabilities as if it were a Link 11 PU.

 

I won't tell you how to craft your scenario, but... Why don't you just make that opening move part of the scenario intro text, not an event that actually happens in the game? i.e. "Yesterday Red pirates attacked a Neutral merchant at coordinates ..."

 

That said, there are two directions from which you will eventually be able to do something closer to what you are attempting here.

 

First is probably longer termed but it is a more complete implementation of the Neutral side as a real side (the Green side) rather than a fixed Neutral side. With that come stances towards each of the other sides and an ability to get the green side mad enough to turn hostile if provoked.

 

Second is an offshoot of a Search And Rescue implementation. That is the idea of a friendly unit that is out of the comms net and must be detected. I imagine that capability could be generalized to situations beyond SAR as needed.

In other words, the AI basically ignores the Green units, and the player cannot attack them. This can be avoided by making the merchant either Red or Blue as opposed to Green, but the problem then is that the program then treats the merchant as a member of the side to which it is assigned, with instant contact reporting capabilities as if it were a Link 11 PU.

 

I won't tell you how to craft your scenario, but... Why don't you just make that opening move part of the scenario intro text, not an event that actually happens in the game? i.e. "Yesterday Red pirates attacked a Neutral merchant at coordinates ..."

 

That said, there are two directions from which you will eventually be able to do something closer to what you are attempting here.

 

First is probably longer termed but it is a more complete implementation of the Neutral side as a real side (the Green side) rather than a fixed Neutral side. With that come stances towards each of the other sides and an ability to get the green side mad enough to turn hostile if provoked.

 

Second is an offshoot of a Search And Rescue implementation. That is the idea of a friendly unit that is out of the comms net and must be detected. I imagine that capability could be generalized to situations beyond SAR as needed.

 

The only problem I see with making the initial attack part of the intro is that it would take some of the fun out of playing the "bad guys". As much as I enjoy all of Harpoons features, there's still the little boy inside me who enjoys blasting things on occasion.

 

The lack of comms/SAR offshoot you mention definitely sounds good, especially as it would serve to enhance a lot of other situations. I think we've all probably had our share of fruitless attempts to contact merchant ships by bridge-to-bridge, flashing light, etc. Being the stand on vessel in a crossing situation at dark thirty AM comes to mind.

 

That said, I still think weaapons impact on neutrals, whether by design or accidental, would add substantially to the game's realism.

 

Thanx:

 

Buddha

That said, I still think weaapons impact on neutrals, whether by design or accidental, would add substantially to the game's realism.

 

Thanx:

 

Buddha

 

Yup, that's why I wanted to handle it separately since BOL weapons should hit anything in the path after activation.

 

Tony

That said, I still think weaapons impact on neutrals, whether by design or accidental, would add substantially to the game's realism.

 

Thanx:

 

Buddha

 

Yup, that's why I wanted to handle it separately since BOL weapons should hit anything in the path after activation.

 

Tony

Tony:

 

In that vein, I just uploaded a small scenario to MANTIS which I hope will show what I mean re BOL shots. It's IOPG, one Blue unit, one Red and a Green one in between, all aligned on one bearing. As I stated there, 20 of 20 attempts had my Harpoon shot ignoring the Green unit and either impacting or being engaged by the Red one.

 

I mention that here since I saw your name associated with the Mantis testing, and sometimes I'm not sure if I've uploaded things succesfully there.

 

Thanx:

 

Buddha