June 30, 200817 yr From an e-mail from DonG * SAR Vision: A scenario option would be to include SAR operations. The database and Scenario Editor should support a Survivor loadout and missions for a/c. The Formation Editor should have a SAR check box. The Victory Conditions should have an option for counting survivors and each side should have a value to rescuing your own forces. A universal value may be appropriate from rescuing neutral or enemy forces). Survivors fade based on their location and Scenario conditions. It would be nice if some mechanism would modify the survivors fade rate based on enemy/friendly territory (yeah that’s a piece of work to implement) Behaviors: Survivors are created when a unit is destroyed. A different survival rate is applied to sub, a/c and ships. All units survivor rate is modified by Scenario (Temperature) and Unit type and how the unit was killed. Sub survivor rates are also modified by depth. A/C survivor rates are also modified by altitude. Land Units/Bases could have have survivors (i.e. Dunkirk). Low priority to implement this. Survivors can be transferred between vessels (again low priority) Some fixed wing a/c could have a SAR loadout that would slow the fading of survivors in the water. Helo’s may have a SAR loadout (as above) and a capacity to remove survivors. Ships and subs would be the same. Survivors fade slower during rescue operations (i.e. getting any help keeps hope and people alive) Reality Probably would make sense to implement only unit survivor type to start with and tune it up before doing all 3 units types. I’m sure you can find holes in what I’ve put down and can add lots of value to what I’ve written. * Some feedback on the current release, we don’t want me posting to Matrix so I’m just going to send you an email (although I could get an alias….) We need a generic ship picture – abstract is fine – to put in the newer BattleSets when “No picture available”. And the sunk ship picture in WestPac – when playing the Japanese – is a pic of the broadside of the New Jersey! I’m pretty sure you know that listing land contacts as surface when the SA comes up is confusing – but I am fairly sure you’d have to hack any sort of fix for that at this point. Here is why I bring it up. I had a combined strike package going into Hanoi and the SAM sites and bridge, and airfields were all grouped together, as you develop land, the ability to filter/sort would be nice.
June 30, 200817 yr From an e-mail from DonG * SAR Vision: A scenario option would be to include SAR operations. The database and Scenario Editor should support a Survivor loadout and missions for a/c. The Formation Editor should have a SAR check box. The Victory Conditions should have an option for counting survivors and each side should have a value to rescuing your own forces. A universal value may be appropriate from rescuing neutral or enemy forces). Survivors fade based on their location and Scenario conditions. It would be nice if some mechanism would modify the survivors fade rate based on enemy/friendly territory (yeah that’s a piece of work to implement) Behaviors: Survivors are created when a unit is destroyed. A different survival rate is applied to sub, a/c and ships. All units survivor rate is modified by Scenario (Temperature) and Unit type and how the unit was killed. Sub survivor rates are also modified by depth. A/C survivor rates are also modified by altitude. Land Units/Bases could have have survivors (i.e. Dunkirk). Low priority to implement this. Survivors can be transferred between vessels (again low priority) Some fixed wing a/c could have a SAR loadout that would slow the fading of survivors in the water. Helo’s may have a SAR loadout (as above) and a capacity to remove survivors. Ships and subs would be the same. Survivors fade slower during rescue operations (i.e. getting any help keeps hope and people alive) Reality Probably would make sense to implement only unit survivor type to start with and tune it up before doing all 3 units types. I’m sure you can find holes in what I’ve put down and can add lots of value to what I’ve written. * Some feedback on the current release, we don’t want me posting to Matrix so I’m just going to send you an email (although I could get an alias….) We need a generic ship picture – abstract is fine – to put in the newer BattleSets when “No picture available”. And the sunk ship picture in WestPac – when playing the Japanese – is a pic of the broadside of the New Jersey! I’m pretty sure you know that listing land contacts as surface when the SA comes up is confusing – but I am fairly sure you’d have to hack any sort of fix for that at this point. Here is why I bring it up. I had a combined strike package going into Hanoi and the SAM sites and bridge, and airfields were all grouped together, as you develop land, the ability to filter/sort would be nice. I found a pic of the Yamamoto being hit that may be more fitting for the WestPac ship sunk graphic. Buddha
August 2, 200817 yr Think I have a simple solution to this one, or rather a work around. We go with the idea that use use the SAR equipment as a weapon. You're downed pilot would then have to be an enemy unit. The key to this is that you make the downed pilot, lifeboat etc would then be flagged with a speical flag as a special unit type which can only be attacked by the SAR weapon type. You flag the SAR weapon type so that it only works against the specific unit type. (sort of the way a HARM only works on radars currently). Adding to this, you could flag the SAR weapons to work on Nuetral and only nuetral targets and simply make the rescuees be neutral only.
April 11, 200917 yr I believe SAR is too complicated to factor into the game because the current victory conditions would really have to get into things like morale and manpower you would have to get into an inventory control process for select crew (ex. pilots, aircrew, etc.) if a a/c goes down and you loose the crew, your manpower would be affected... but since they lost their a/c too... bringing them back is more for morale then need; at a base where extra a/c would be available, this could be a factor (ex. I have 10 crews but 12 a/c), but at sea... odds are you have more crew then a/c
April 11, 200917 yr I believe SAR is too complicated to factor into the game because the current victory conditions would really have to get into things like morale and manpower you would have to get into an inventory control process for select crew (ex. pilots, aircrew, etc.) if a a/c goes down and you loose the crew, your manpower would be affected... but since they lost their a/c too... bringing them back is more for morale then need; at a base where extra a/c would be available, this could be a factor (ex. I have 10 crews but 12 a/c), but at sea... odds are you have more crew then a/c I agree that things could get complicated if all the details you bring up were implemented. I'd like to be able to use SAR missions and situations as part of scenario construction though. Buddha
April 11, 200917 yr A variation of the SAR possibilities as regards scenario design is rescue of refugees. I was directly involved with the 'Nam evacuation in '75, and there are still situations that arise on a smaller scale in the Caribbean. Frequent Wind/Eagle Pull was total organized insanity IIRC. If I can work out the mechanics, maybe I'll give a scenario a shot. Any and all suggestions are welcome. Buddha Sweet! And how about scenarios for putting cargo ashore for natural disaster relief? DRG
April 11, 200917 yr Sweet! And how about scenarios for putting cargo ashore for natural disaster relief? DRG That could be handled just like an ordinary amphibious landing, couldn't it?
December 5, 201015 yr While the discussion is already kind of old, I would love to see this feature request implemented. As others have written before, there could be multiple stages in which a SAR capability is introduced into Harpoon: Down pilot with special capabilities Downed planes may generate downed pilots To summarize the thread, the first item would need to be land and sea capable. It should not be detected by the owning side until in a 'beeper' range. Upon arrival of a SAR equipped unit, the downed pilot should be picked up. This may or may not reflect in a victory condition fulfillment at first, though it would be nice to have this at a later stage at least. The second item is probably much more difficult to code. Essentially this means one unit (plane) may be 'transformed' into one or multiple others (downed pilots). Once this has happened, the already tested approach from the first item is used. On victory conditions for dynamically created downed pilots, maybe this could be done like the damaged percentage. A percentage of overall downed pilots need to be rescued.
December 14, 201015 yr I'm with Tetet. This discussion is going far and I hope it is near of the next step of creat it..hehe.. I'll love this option of SAR may insert in the HCE game. I know many suggestion were made. But I think the objective of SAR option will be: - Sea and Land capability - All units has SAR points like damage points representing the number of man possible to rescue - SAR units has equipment like weapons which hit the unit SAR points until is totaly rescue. - SAR points after full damage of the unit, it start to decrease in a rate time untill the full sink/crash life survivel time (3-5 days). - The detection between 90-2010,it exists EPIRB transmiter where sent the position signal to Flag side , so it is define the position, and the enemy have detection rate. This already happen in the game and isn't necessary to change it. - I think, only it may possible to kill SAR points by the enemy FLAG However I think the purpose of SAR is simply understand and objective. About creating in the game this SAR option. I don't know totally what is easier to create in the game engine so I may be giving stupid suggestions but it also be possible to help. I don't know how it works the sinking progress, but it appear that the unit stay some time in sinking after full damage.This will possible to be the time where the SAR points are decreasing and the meantime where it can be rescue. Is what is making more sense to me. It may need to make this option and changes in aircraft. I hope will be useful post, and I'll love to this idea go forward.
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