First Post

1. Long Range ASW patrols to be improved, say by setting an area and the ASW plane flies around dropping bouys. It is slightly annoying to fly a plane out to a long contact by sosus or something like that, and have the still viable contact drop off, leaving you to either manually search with dropping sonobouys, or have to just route the plane around the area hoping to pick up a MAD contact. Perhaps add a new order, after you use it will have the plane automatically drop sono-bouys for the rest of the plotted course.

2. Add an "intercept" option for tankers, to intercept a friendly group and refuel.

3. Single ship/sub formations automatically centre over the single ship. Annoying to (for example), intercept a ship with a sub, and then find the sub is actually in the upper right quadrant/zone and is still miles away from the target.

4. More info how much much fuel a tanker has.

 

Second edit

5. Formation Editor - Add an option to "hide" ships from the selection boxes. Hell, make an option to filter it by ship, sub, plane, and then type, like ASW loadouts, ASuW loadouts, EW, AEW, Intercept/A2A loads etc.

6. Allow the Formation Editor box to be resized. Enable the user to select (maybe in the staff options) how fast ships repositioned in a formation move to their new position.

7. A function to "remember" how the windows are sized.

8. Ability to change the boxes back to a default setting in a small resolution. I was unable to play my current copy of harpoon for months because I switched from 1600x1200 to a widescreen 1680x1050 and the patrol box among other things was hidden. I had to hack the registry to fix it.

 

Third edit

9. Add a "Return To Base" or "Land At" option for "Sir, Air Group XXX does not have enough fuel to intercept enemy Group XXX" Staff Message Box.

 

Edit the Fourth

10. Allow tankers set inside formations (ie as part of a Carrier Battle Group or Airbase, to refuel units which have not used any expendables during their air patrol (ie if you have 2 Tomcats setup as a CAP around your CVGB, if you have no threats the tanker will refuel them to allow them to remain on station for longer).

 

5th edit

11. Remove ALL CAPS from any mission briefing that still contains them.

 

6th edit

12. Add various "tags" or checkboxes or simply just saying that a unit has a specific piece of equipment/flag to the Platform display eg:

Air - Has "VLOW Capabale" flag. Has MAD rig. Has Dipping Sonar.

Sub/Ship - Has Towed Array

 

This edit is right out

13. Intergrated 3rd party scenario support.

 

I don't need no steeenking edit

14. Some sort of in-built scenario and database manager.

 

The reason is that you can, at a glance, see if the planes you have selected will crash into the ground at VLOW or have a dipping sonar etc etc.

Fourth edit. New post to show people who may have already seen the originals that there is new posts.

5th edit.

Okay, I'll bite, is all caps that annoying in the context of a missions brief clickety clacking in via a teletype machine?

Yes. In the context of anything. There is a reason that ALLCAPS has been frowned upon from practically the start of the internet age. I'd also suggest fully spelling out things which are abbreviated, example "airrcnsqn" and "onsta" to make it more readable. Unless there is some character constraint I'm missing.

 

Compare:

 

Z	 042005ZAPR98		   SSSSSSSSSSSSSS 

FROM: CINCCISBANNORFLT

 TO: COMSHIPSQN 31.22 (ZZS)
  COMSHIPSQN 33.65 (ZYS)
  COMSUBSQN 39.13 (ZXU)

INFO: COMNAVBASE SEVEROMORSK
  COMAIRRCNSQN 323.28 (ZWb)

BT
SECRET// XJ332N
SUBJ: COMMENCEMENT HOSTILITIES OPERATION FIREBRAND

1. AT 1230Z 4 APR US AMPHIB UNITS CONDUCTING OPS IN THE SVALBARD ISLANDS WERE ENGAGED BY UNITS OF AIRREG 311.  THIS FOLLOWS A CONTINUED INCREASE OF CIS MILITARY ACTIVITY INCLUDING RAMMING OF US FF IN MED SEA AND POSITIONING OF SSBN UNITS.  KREMLIN HAS ISSUED DEFCON 1 REPEAT DEFCON 1 ALERT STATUS. 

2. SHIP SQUADRON 31.22, FLAG KALININ, IS ORDERED TO MAKE NORWEGIAN COAST AND ENGAGE REMAINING UNITS OF US AMPHIB GROUP.  ESSENTIAL ALL HOSTILE AMPHIB UNITS ELIMINATED.  ENSURE BCGN IN PORT SEVEROMORSK PRIOR 82 HOURS POST COMMENCEMENT OF OPERATION. 

3. SHIP SQUADRON 33.65 ORDERED U/W SEVEROMORSK POST-HASTE.  INTERCEPT HOSTILE AMPHIB GROUP ASSUMED MAKING SOUTH FOR SAFE NATO PORT. 

4. SUBSQN 39.13 TO OPPOSE TRANSIT HOSTILE UNITS.  REMAIN ONSTA.

5. AIRRCNSQN 323.2 TO PROVIDE RECON FOR LOCATION HOSTILE UNITS NORWEGIAN SEA.

6. CURRENT ENEMY FORCE INTEL ESTIMATES: NATO TG STANAVFORLANT CONDUCTING OPS IN NORWEGIAN SEA, MINIMAL AIRCRAFT ACTIVITY.

7. BEST ESTIMATE HOSTILE INTENTIONS ARE TO ENSURE AMPHIB UNITS ESCAPE ARCTIC.  ESSENTIAL INITIAL ACTIVITIES CIS BANNER NORFLT SUCCESSFUL.

8. SPECIAL WEAPON RELEASE NOT EXPECTED.  INTEND WESTERN NATIONS UNDERSTAND CIS HAS NO INTENTION USING HIGH YIELD WEAPONS OR OF INVOLVING NON-US FORCES UNLESS THOSE FORCES ARE IN COMPANY WITH US UNITS.

9. ROE WARNING LEVEL RED, WEAPONS FREE -- ENGAGE ALL HOSTILES ENCOUNTERED.  PROTECT BCGN AT ALL COSTS. 

DWNGRD/DECL/OADR//
BT

Z	 042005ZAPR98		   SSSSSSSSSSSSSS

 

To:

 

From: CIC CIS Banner Northern Fleet

 To: Commander Ship Squadron 31.22 (zzs)
  Commander Ship Squadron 33.65 (zys)
  Commander Sub Squadron 39.13 (zxu)

Info: Commander Naval Base Severomorsk
  Commander Air Recon Squadron 323.28 (zwb)

Secret // xj332n
SUBJ: Commencement Hostilities Operation Firebrand.

1. At 1230z US Amphibious units conducting operations in the Svalbard Islands were engaged by units of Air Regiment 311. This follows a continued increase of CIS military activity including ramming of US FFG in Mediterranean Sea and positioning of SSBN units. Kremlin has issued DEFCON 1 repeat DEFCON 1 alert status. 

2. Ship Squadron 31.22, Flag Kalinin, is ordered to make Norwegian coast and engage remaining units of US Amphibious group. Essential all hostile Amphibious units eliminated. Ensure BCGN in port Severomorsk prior 82 hours post commencement of operation. 

3. Ship Squadron 33.65 ordered underway Severomorsk post-haste. Intercept hostile Amphibious group assumed making South for safe NATO port. 

4. Submarine Squadron 39.13 to oppose transit hostile units. Remain on-station.

5. Air Recon Squadron 323.2 to provide recon for location hostile units Norwegian sea.

6. Current enemy force Intel estimates: NATO Task Group Standing Naval Forces Atlantic (STANAVFORLANT) conducting ops in Norwegian sea, minimal aircraft activity.

7. Best estimate hostile intentions are to ensure Amphibious units escape the Arctic Circle. Essential initial activities CIS Banner Northern Fleet successful.

8. Special weapon release not expected. Intend Western nations understand CIS has no intention using high yield weapons or of involving non-US forces unless those forces are in company with US units.

9. ROE warning level red, weapons free -- Engage all hostiles encountered. Protect BCGN at all costs. 

dwngrd/decl/oadr//
bt

z	 042005zapr98		   ssssssssssssss

 

In-game it's even worse, as you only get huge walls of text. For example the first "point" takes up a block of 4 lines within the in-game briefing.

You are missing the ambiance and feel aspect of the orders being in all caps and having cryptic acronyms. We won't be re-doing any existing orders files but most scenario authors don't use all caps so new material is produced in a format more to your liking. I still look at the all caps orders files and do imagine the teletype knocking out caps cause the transmission protocol doesn't know anything else, and the typists don't want to worry about ever turning off the all caps . If the orders files didn't come in all caps I wouldn't have that imagination work going on at all.

You get something out of it, I don't. I barely read them as I don't like reading giant walls of allcaps (the acronyms not annoying for me). Subsequently I don't know or care about the mission as much, and often don't play them.

understood, and it is a wish list

10. Allow tankers set inside formations (ie as part of a Carrier Battle Group or Airbase, to refuel units which have not used any expendables during their air patrol (ie if you have 2 Tomcats setup as a CAP around your CVGB, if you have no threats the tanker will refuel them to allow them to remain on station for longer).

 

Can you expand on your vision for this one? The part I have a hard time with is "no threats". I also wonder how to decide how many tankers can be used in this capacity (i.e. you set a one plane tanker patrol, is a new tanker sent up as soon as the first has offloaded its fuel, or as soon as the first lands, or do you only launch again when the first has landed and refueled? (the general rule is three planes caught up in the formation patrol pool for each plane actually placed in the formation editor).

 

Thank you

Okay.

 

Say you have a single carrier. It has 4 KA6 with refuel loadout. It has 6 F-14D with an A2A loadout, range about 1550. You send up 2 Tomcats on an CAP. You send up one of the KA in a "TAP" (Tanker Air Patrol, 1600 range iirc).

 

From my understanding the amount a single tanker can refuel is equal to their total range divided by the amount of planes they are refuelling.

 

The 2 groups go around. Nothing requires an intercept or a missile shot (which is what I mean by "no threats"), so the Tomcats still have all their weapons. The game has a certain amount of fuel that a group will have to call over a tanker in the formation, say 50% left with no expendables used. Whichever group meets the 50% fuel and no expendables first gets refuelled. The more refuel planes you have, the more groups get refuel instead of landing.

 

Normally, the Tomcats would head back to base, with another pair launching instead.

 

With the refuelling option, the KA would head to the group with 50% fuel left (775) and no stores used, and give each plane an extra 800, which tops them up to 100%. The tanker then returns to base and it's replacement launched, meaning you save 4 planes on the carrier in case something attacks.

6th edit.

The 2 groups go around. Nothing requires an intercept or a missile shot (which is what I mean by "no threats"), so the Tomcats still have all their weapons. The game has a certain amount of fuel that a group will have to call over a tanker in the formation, say 50% left with no expendables used. Whichever group meets the 50% fuel and no expendables first gets refueled. The more refuel planes you have, the more groups get refuel instead of landing.

 

 

Let's assume in CVBG formation patrol are two Tomcats as one patrol group, two SH-60, one S-3 and one E-2.

Now a tanker launch for patrolling refueling at X2 high and Y2 speed inside of the predefined patrol zone. When the two Tomcats (so far the patrol sector is partial inside of the tanker patrol sector) have Z1 fuel, the Tomcats and Tanker will head on to each other (with X1 high, Y1 speed, S1 sensor setting and X2 high, Y2 speed, S2 sensor setting) inside of the common sector and by a distance of 0 nm the Tomcats be refueled (by X3 high, Y3 speed, S3 sensor setting) with as many fuel as possible so that the tanker can safe return to base (Z2). If the tanker has plenty of fuel he patrol till next refueling action or till bingo fuel (Z2). Then the tanker return to base and replacement will be launched. Then the S-3 will be refueled on the same way by Zx fuel. Then the Tomcats will be refueled by Z1 fuel, then the E-2, then the Tomcats again, and so on. Incidentally the Tomcats, E-2 could stay on patrol for 24 hours and more. To avoid this the system must have a time limit Ax (per aircraft type, F-16, P-3, RQ-4, ...) when a aircraft shall rater return to base then refuel.

 

X1, Y1, Z1, S1, X2, Y2, Z2, S2, X3, Y3, S3, Zx, Ax are parameters which user can define trough properties or per formation patrol group or are general known and hard coded.

Z fuel in % or NM or Km or Kg.

 

 

mack, is this according your minds? From my point of view this shall be implemented earliest at the time when the formation editor/ formation patrols will be debugged, so that we could attache a S-3 or E-3 during the game to a carrier or base formation. Maybe it is worth to do it hand in hand with the waypoint editor to use synergies.

 

 

Edit: Extended and mistyping corrected

6th edit.

 

Interesting question: How can a player know if a unit (example: aircraft) is able for Vlow, or probe/drouge or boom refueling, and so on (except using the PE)?

Yes, that is how I am thinking.

 

As for Refuelling it's simply abstracted. Any unit with a refuel store can refuel any other unit that can refuel. AFAIk the only way to know if a unit can refuel is if when you allocate a unit to a mission it tells you the plane is not enough range and cannot be refueling in-flight.

 

The only way to know if a plane can VLOW is to test it by going at VLOW, or by checking in the database.

Wishes 1-12 noted for the big redesign.