CV32 Posted August 15, 2012 Report Share Posted August 15, 2012 From National Defense Carrier Debate Rages in Face Of New Threats September 2012 By Eric Beidel The Navy’s next aircraft carrier will cost more than $12 billion. But potential adversaries are developing weapons to destroy such a vessel for a lot less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gemerson Posted August 15, 2012 Report Share Posted August 15, 2012 Norm is right in one way ... it costs way too much money to build them. Frankly the entire US naval shipbuilding industry is overpriced for what we receive. What it cost the US billions to build a DDG for, HHI in South Korea does for hundreds of millions - a big difference! Where I disagree with Norm (and he is friend and previous co-worker), yes we have other assets to launch long-range strikes and mobile long-range recon platforms. He doesn't realize it costs LOTS of money to retask an expensive satellite and the retasking burns the satellites onboard fuel stores - thus shortening its lifespan. Sorry, it ain't like 24, where a bird can be re=tasked at the drop of a hat. Although long-range strikes can be completed by the air force and smaller naval platforms, nothing (and I repeat NOTHING) has the power projection capability of a US Navy aircraft carrier. If your a bad actor and you see one of them sitting on the horizon off your coast, you get this heavy sinking feeling in your bowels. If your one of our brave men in women in the Corps (Semper Fi guys and gals), the sight of a CVN off the beach gives you a peace and assurance. US Navy carriers will be around for a long time to come. What we need to do is bring the overall production costs down. Hold Huntington-Ingalls accountable for the money they spend. Get the freaking labors unions to put ina days work for a days pay (there's a novel thought). If these two things were done we could save several billion on the price tag and shorten the production time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CV32 Posted August 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2012 I agree, Greg. Edit: Something of a hypocritical comment to add from the perspective of HCE. In many cases, I will prefer an airfield to a carrier, assuming my assets have the range to reach their targets and self-defenses are adequate. Why? You can't torpedo an airfield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Hunter UK Posted August 15, 2012 Report Share Posted August 15, 2012 I agree, Greg. Edit: Something of a hypocritical comment to add from the perspective of HCE. In many cases, I will prefer an airfield to a carrier, assuming my assets have the range to reach their targets and self-defenses are adequate. Why? You can't torpedo an airfield. No, but you can wreck the runway or just nuke the site from orbit (it's the only way to be sure ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CV32 Posted August 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2012 No, but you can wreck the runway or just nuke the joint. Things you can already do to a carrier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gemerson Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 Trus, but also a carrier is mobile. Its harder to hit a moving target - even with a nuke. Given some warning (I mean get real, someone its just going to lob a nuke as a knee-jerk reaction), a CVN can hightail it out of the area. From experience, when i mean hightail it, I mean HIGHTAIL it out of the area. All the speeds listed in books, websites (and games), are the unclassified speed. Although not ludicrous speed (man I love Spaceballs), its fast! Sorry, if I told you the precise knots I'd have to kill you afterwards. are three-inches of HY-80 - the steel used for our submarine hulls. The deck penetrations on the flight deck and Hangar Bay are pnumatically-operated they are so heavy. I love them to death (having served on one), but they can be made more cost-effectively! That's my root point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CV32 Posted August 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 Trus, but also a carrier is mobile. Read my post again. I don't disagree. My comments are made in relation to HCE. Its harder to hit a moving target - even with a nuke. Not in HCE. A nuke will smack you right in the kisser. Given some warning (I mean get real, someone its just going to lob a nuke as a knee-jerk reaction), a CVN can hightail it out of the area. From experience, when i mean hightail it, I mean HIGHTAIL it out of the area. All the speeds listed in books, websites (and games), are the unclassified speed. Although not ludicrous speed (man I love Spaceballs), its fast! Sorry, if I told you the precise knots I'd have to kill you afterwards. are three-inches of HY-80 - the steel used for our submarine hulls. Most of us are well aware of the 'conservative' speed estimates used in the OSI. Its not that closely guarded a secret. The deck penetrations on the flight deck and Hangar Bay are pnumatically-operated they are so heavy. I love them to death (having served on one), but they can be made more cost-effectively! That's my root point. They're going to have to be built more cost effectively - and the air wings too! - if they are to survive the most deadly threat of all: politics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gemerson Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 Man, I need to check my typing better. Your right, Brad. I completely forgot about the airwing as well. Also, politics IS a very deadly weapon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncepulido Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 Some curious considerations about nuclear-powered carriers, in an old but worth of mention article: http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-028.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopher Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 From National Defense The Navy’s next aircraft carrier will cost more than $12 billion. But potential adversaries are developing weapons to destroy such a vessel for a lot less. I'm not surprised. There are multiple reasons. We (the western world) don't have the culture any more to develope to a low price. One example of a simple screw in a hospital or manufactruing building (or maybe carrier): Manufacturing cost for a screw 1.00 $/€ Benefit margin 8.5 % Resulting Benefit 0.09 $/€ Sale price to mechanic 1.09 $/€ Stock benefit margin of mechanic 8.5 % Stock benefit 0.09 $/€ Internal sale price to mechanic 1.18 $/€ Benefit margin of mechanic 8.5 % Benefit of mechanic 0.10 $/€ Sale price of mechanic 1.28 $/€ Benefit margin of facility management 8.5 % Benefit of facility management 0.11 $/€ Benefit bonus for the management 0.11 $/€ Sale price of the new "service" to lodger 1.49 $/€ Benefit margin of lodger 8.5 % Benefit of lodger 0.13 $/€ Benefit bonus for the management 0.13 $/€ Sale price to health assurance 1.75 $/€ Benefit margin of health assurance 8.5 % Benefit of health assurance 0.15 $/€ Benefit bonus for the management 0.15 $/€ Sale price to end Customer 2.05 $/€ And this include only the price of the screw and no work done and no tax included! If you do a bussiness with a benefit margin of only 8.5% then you will never get a credit from a bank. They expect at least a margin of 15%! So each physical part cost at least 3.34x as manufactured! So if carrier with 80Kt steel had a price of 800 Mio.$ (only the main structure with hull) in the past would cost today 2.6 Mrd. $. And on the electrical and equipement sides it is could be the same factor. Does someone know the five Rings of Warden? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warden%27s_Five_Rings If I look to the sic benefit margin in europa then it is easy to destroy the economic of a country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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