Hello,

 

I have a hard time keeping my fighters and strike aircraft alive against opposition. This happens in the PacWest battleset with Japan vs South Korea and to a lesser extent North Korea. What is my best response with an air group against an incoming air to air missile group? Just turn around and run? I tried this with full afterburner on very low, but this exposes the planes to the risk of crashing. And at times the air to air missiles still hit. Often this leads to a situation where both parties are completely annihilated by the missiles. Any advice is welcome

One of the things you might try is to go to 1 Second timing during Air to Air engagements, as this gives you more time to react to enemy launches. As soon as you see their launch, do the "turn and burn" at whatever altitude you're at. Sometimes, changing altitude continually during the run for your life seems to help.

Of course, the best thing is to be able to outrange your enemy. If you do, fire at the outside range of his missiles, then turn and run. If you don't, try dancing around on the edge of his outer range. If you can force him to fire off his longer ranged missiles and you can outrun them, he will be vulnerable to your counterstrike.

Unless there's a reason to stay low (eg long range SAMs in the area that you know you can't outrun) if you're trying to outrun a missile it's usually best to get as high as you can, as your speed increases quite significantly at altitude in most cases, while the missile stays at the same speed regardless.

I concur with Wombat's suggestions. In my experience, if your air group remains within the AI group's missile range, then the AI's missiles will have a 100% kill rate, even though your own missiles often fail to hit. :-( Luring the AI's group to expend it's longer-ranged missiles before trying to engage is about the only way to have a chance, as it is virtually impossible to "sneak up" on the AI's air groups.

 

As far as the turn-and-burn tactic, I've had success only with going to max speed (usually meaning High Altitude). Because the missiles are significantly faster than the top speed of the aircraft, using slower speed (as by going to VLow altitude) usually is futile - although that low altitude tactic seems to help against ground-launched missiles IF you are in the outer quartile of a long-ranged missile's range... apparently it defeats the missile's ground-based guidance radar in that case - not sure. In any event, the tactic doesn't seem to work at closer ranges - such as against shorter-ranged SAMs.

 

Anyway, in my own experience, I've never had any success with "dodging" the AI's AAMs or SAMs by using any sort of altitude and/or course "jinking" - other than what I mentioned above; the only way I've been able to avoid the AI missiles is to keep my air group at a range from the AI's air group where I can "turn and burn" with enough time to exit the AI missile range before impact. This generally precludes the use of any aircraft other than the Tomcats (in those specific scenarios) to engage the AI's air groups - since most AI groups have longer-range AAMs than even the Phoenix, and it is rather risky to try the turn and burn tactic with slower aircraft such as the Hornets. Of course, if you're so-inclined - or desperate - you can attempt to use some expendable aircraft as missle fodder to get the AI group to use up it's longer-ranged missiles before trying to engage with Hornets or F-2s... however, because the AI side has much larger numbers of fighters than your side does, you're not going to gain anything over the long haul by sacrificing your air assets this way! :-{

In my experience, if your air group remains within the AI group's missile range, then the AI's missiles will have a 100% kill rate, even though your own missiles often fail to hit. :-( Luring the AI's group to expend it's longer-ranged missiles before trying to engage is about the only way to have a chance, as it is virtually impossible to "sneak up" on the AI's air groups.

 

Still getting murdered by the AI, Joe?

 

To be clear, TeTeT, AI missiles do not have a 100% kill rate, and neither do your own. pH of all missiles, regardless of which side is shooting them, is dictated by the DB values assigned to the missiles and aircraft, and the circumstances in which the engagement takes place.

...

To be clear, TeTeT, AI missiles do not have a 100% kill rate, and neither do your own. pH of all missiles, regardless of which side is shooting them, is dictated by the DB values assigned to the missiles and aircraft, and the circumstances in which the engagement takes place.

 

I've noticed that not all missiles hit, thanks for reassuring this. I guess counter measures are not implemented? Or in other words, do the E- type planes give me an edge vs SAM and air to air missiles, when in close enough range?

"and it is rather risky to try the turn and burn tactic with slower aircraft such as the Hornets."

I really, really don't like Hornets. Tomcats forever!

"and it is rather risky to try the turn and burn tactic with slower aircraft such as the Hornets."

I really, really don't like Hornets. Tomcats forever!

 

Meh ... Hornets are nice when you've got a lot of surface targets to deal with, and that's usually the way it is ...

"and it is rather risky to try the turn and burn tactic with slower aircraft such as the Hornets."

I really, really don't like Hornets. Tomcats forever!

 

Meh ... Hornets are nice when you've got a lot of surface targets to deal with, and that's usually the way it is ...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6E-fQ57U8qY...feature=related

 

Enough said.

"and it is rather risky to try the turn and burn tactic with slower aircraft such as the Hornets."

I really, really don't like Hornets. Tomcats forever!

So if I said Tomcats are "old fat and 'a big blip on a radar screen'" you'd be a bit insulted? OK I won't say it.

Sometimes a couple of brave (and I stress brave) pilots in something like a hornet (most recent the better) cruising in vlow and getting in close can reek significant damage before they're detected. I wouldn't use it as first course of action but someone has to win those medals when the cautious approach isn't working.

In more recent scenarios there are even better choices of course, Rafales, Lightnings etc often pop up right where you've lost a fist full of 'front line fighters' with no warning!

Re 100% missile kill rate, you often only see the ones that kill, you might think AI is getting 100% but there are probably plenty that you aren't even seeing.

Don

Does anyone else wish MiG 28's were real?