donaldseadog

There is such a thing. It's called a screenshot. I have provided 2 in the "scenario creation" thread from exactly the relevant instant. Now you claim, Joe, that your AEW planes are constantly being jumped by stealthy enemy fighters. Fine. Next time it happens, lean back, stretch, press "print screen", dump it into Paint, save as a JPEG, and upload it here. Then do it again. This will not help for formally debugging the problem, but it will certainly help to convince everyone here that you are actually seeing this effect. Of course, after I have made this plain statement, if you do NOT provide such screenshots, then everyone here, realizing how easy it is to provide them, will be certain that you do not actually see such effects. No, a screenshot - or even a series of screenshots does not provide the play-back that I was thinking of. As far as screenshots providing any "evidence" necessary to convince anyone for or against this, I would debate the "weight" of that sort of "evidence" as being far less compelling than the game-saves I've already provided - albeit not for the sneak attacks situation. Since those were not believed, then I can't see this being believed, either. And lastly, how can it be logically contrued that if I fail to provide convincing screenshot(s), then that "proves" anything, one way or the other? At best (worst?), it might lead people to assume that I don't see the effects... but that has been the case since the outset, so nothing new there. Be that as it may, I'd ask what sort of screenshot is going to demonstrate what you seek here - that is to "convince" anyone that the situation happens even once, let alone regularly. I mean, seriously, what would it have to show in order to be "convincing" of this situation? Is it even possible to demonstrate that way? (I surely don't see how). Well I think screen shots are useful. In this situation I'd assume you get a game message (staff assistant or the like), before dismissing the message (while it is showing you are in a game pause) I look at my screen and if I think there is something to learn then as soon as I dismiss the message screen I go to 0 time compression, turn on 'see all' and see who is where. If I was still confused a screen shot will keep a visual record that a more experienced harpooner might be able to decipher. A screen shot of a single incident would be easy to talk about, what is there, what just got shot, who done it , how did they do it etc... They might not be the ant's pants but screen shots are useful. If nothing else they show the whole story (if done in 'see all'), not just what I can remember or what I think happened. Don Thomas

Heh, keep in mind that Brad and Tony are pretty much at the end of their rope when it comes to explaining things. Its really nice when others (like mavfin) jump in to help. So, perhaps Brad and Tony need a holiday from the easier explanation stuff, there may be other things to do that they can find Don

By this point it needs to be plainly recognized that the AI units do NOT have any detection advantage "cheat" over the human units. If they did, given that no one seems to be saying that the game definitely does that, then if the game did in fact do that, Tony, Brad, and all the other Harpoon experts here would have to be lying through their teeth. It's an either-or case. Personally, I am going with the first possibility. And therefore any further suggestion that such a "cheat" is the explanation for certain observed effects is just wasting people's time. If anyone finds that their planes are being bushwhacked by the AI time and time again, you can be fairly certain that the scenario designer has positioned the AI units where they can bushwhack you, if you let them. Nor is a question of the game running wrong on one specific machine. If the game file is corrupt, then the game won't run at all. I am making it my personal mission to track down the real explanation for these effects. Hmm, just a thought, most of us think Harpoon is pretty realistic and in reality it takes an operator quite a while to learn how to run their machine, it sure as hell takes a warfare officer a long time to learn his (and these days her) trade. Not meant as a slap in the face, just a reality check I guess. Don Thomas

If you can't wait for someone like Tony I'd try using a short cut with "your hce drive letter:\your HCE folder name\winharp32.exe" -l radar as the command line I guess the -l radar is the bit you need to add to a normal short cut. I hope that works (I haven't used short cuts since the launcher). Don

File Name: In Flight Refuel Exercise File Submitter: donaldseadog File Submitted: 17 Mar 2011 File Updated: 31 Mar 2011 File Category: NACV DB Used: HCDB-100930 Authors: Don Thomas Battleset-NACV: .scn - EC2003 - EC2003 This is a non combat scenario with some 'exercises' to help hone skills in getting fuel to airborne aircraft with minimum effort. Probably only of interest to newer Harpoon players that don't already now the ropes of IFR. In the ZIP file there is a text file that gives the details of the included exercises so that you can have that open as a separate window for reference during the scenario. (31/3/11) Up dated orders to correct a feature regarding fuel allocation to multi unit groups. Don Thomas Click here to download this file

In RL each sonar device has a certain arc (towed arrays generally can't see a slice directly forward thanks to propulsion noises, bow sonar generally has a nice rearward gap,...). Most often if you have sensors to cover the full 360 degrees there will be operators covering the whole compass. You'll also have vertical limitations but the game does not model those other than docking you for cross-layer detection attempts. I don't recall if the paper rules have the 5 minute interval but I do know the explanation was that even if the sensors are always going to town it still takes time to do a proper TMA (target motion analysis), hence the 5 minute rule. I'm not going to say that it is the best model for detecting the quite loud torpedoes streaming towards you. In the game torpedoes are annoyingly loud. That 5 minute interval is for both active and passive sonar for the TMA reason (though really it should be easier with active sonar, you'll know range for sure which you don't with passive but you still need multiple ping returns to determine course and speed). Sonalysts take on TMA: http://www.scribd.com/doc/49609458/16/Targ...on-Analysis-TMA Brad's Tactics 101 series: http://harpgamer.com/harpforum/index.php?showtopic=3608 Thanks Tony, as someone said recently, you learn something every day (well we do) Don

Ctrl Alt S will reveal all units in the scenario, your side and theirs. If you're not seeing that, let us know what version of the GE you're using, battleset and scenario, etc. Ooops... I was hitting Ctrl+Shift+S, now I see it, thanks! A real God's eye indeed ;-) Francesco Also in 'see all' you can actually give some orders to your opponent, not so much as your own team but some (I forget which ones but I think course and speed, maybe launching aircraft but not direct attacks). Don

I believe the manual states that tankers can't refuel THEMSELVES. I think you are right but I think the translation into Harpoon reality is that you can't refuel tankers in general, at least I've never been able to using normal refuelling procedures. There might be a trick to do it, any ideas?? Don That reminds me of a situation that happened recently, where I had four F-14A's configured with tanker loadouts, and due to a SNAFU, they were heading off towards a base in Timbuktu, instead of to their originating base. Thus, they were running out of fuel. Fortunately - or so I thought - a KC-10 was nearby, so I introduced them and tried to re-fuel. It seemed to be working, but the range circle on the F-14s kept on getting smaller, and eventually they dropped out of the sky. Now, this was close enough that I'm not sure if it was just a case that there was not enough time to do the refueling, but it certainly gave the impression that the F-14's were not IFR capable (like the similar situation with that KA-6, which actually happened in the same incident, BTW). Anyway, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that F-14As were IFR-capable... or does having them in the Tanker loadout remove that capability? Test it and see. Hint, in the message log window you will see the time at which the tanker gets ready to refuel and the time(s) that it refuels each unit (might be more than one receiving unit). You should see the unit's range circle grow and % bingo jump simultaneously with respective units 'starting' refuel. Don

I meant to comment on this earlier. The USNI scenarios are challenging, I'd agree, but "insanely hard" or impossible to the point that anyone should refuse to play them? Nah, can't agree with that. I would be interested in hearing about others' experience with them. Are you getting your butt handed to you regularly in USNI? Maybe it depends on your definition of insanity. I don't have access to the USNI scenarios right now, but looking at my old AAR, I recall that there was a huge variation in the starting airpower. Playing as the Russians, I remember that I got the maximum number of Fencers, without which the USSR probably has zero chance of winning. In general, if you get a poor OB and the AI gets a good one, you won't have a chance. Besides, Brad, what's challenging for you may well be be impossible for a non-expert. http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1997503 Hasn't Joe been talking about being swarmed with 700-800 heavy bombers almost before he gets anything in the air in one scenario? He hasn't provided screenshots ... yet. So here is dumb question of the year (glad it is early in the year, I might get beaten before it ends).. I know i've seen USNI scenarios, but I can't find them. I'm sure they were 'resident' in the game battlesets but not now. I seem to have something funny with HDSM.res and HDSM.rsr files, should they be the USNI battleset?? (If so I need to reload I guess), otherwise where should they be?? I just have to have a go in there, nothing like an insane flogging DonThomas

Nope, proper English mate, them birds in the garden that lay eggs and go boook boook boook, don't you have em? All local birds died due to radiactive fallout. Won't be good for your goats either I guess (I'm assuming everyone has chooks and goats) Don

He ain't kidding. Sonar checks every 5 minutes. Kinda throws the statistics outta whack, huh? Moral of this story: Torpedoes are really mean. So in real life there is no doubt torpedoes are mean, how close to real life do these stats look, any one know? I'd assume a lot of work goes into making a torpedo as quiet as possible, ditto the subs of course, and while the torpedo is going fast it is pretty small and I assume running at its most advantageous depth. Interesting the 5 minute sonar checks (I assume we're talking passive?) is that some historical harpoon thing? In RL is listening done 360 deg, directional, combination? DonT

Nope, proper English mate, them birds in the garden that lay eggs and go boook boook boook, don't you have em?

Do you use the message system (short cut F10)? When you know you need to do something in the future select the group you'll be giving orders to and hit F10, enter your reminder message then you get a 'time delay' window, select the time delay required. When the time count down has finished you'll get the reminder pop-up and a chance to select the group so you can issue your orders. The F10 can also be put in as an order in the course editor so as to get your reminder at a certain location. This is very handy for arranging IFRs, if you have all group tracks showing calculate approx where you want to meet and course tanker and receiver groups to that spot and for each group put in a F10 reminder to look for the refuel. That way you don't forget. If your refuel spot is within the formation patrol area of you tanker's base you can also put the tanker in patrol formation in the overlapping sector, put in a F10 reminder at an inserted spot in the receiver groups course and when you get there do a 'join' manoeuvre to get the tanker out of formation and into the receiver group, then do the Alt R for immediate refuelling. Hope this helps, Don (and your post # 6) I learn something new every day. Don't we all

My comment to this is that, imo, the game/sim really isn't *designed* to be played without external knowledge. i.e. you're severely handicapped if you don't know what's a radar homer, what's an EO guided weapon, which missiles are heat-seekers, and which a/c have a high dogfight value. (Don't dogfight with F4s vs a Flanker OR a MiG-17, for example.) There are many other things it's good to know that could be classified as 'external knowledge', such as the fact that fighters are generally radar-blind in the rear, sort of like a submarine without a tail. What's helpful about coming here is that you can find out that particular *implementations* of those are a bit strange, like ARMs, for example. ................................... I totally agree, I've learned a huge amount from Harpoon and this site. If all this stuff was built in I think Harpoon would perhaps degrade to just another 'game'. As it is you need certain knowledge (which you can obtain here) and you need to do lots of thinking. Don Thomas

I believe the manual states that tankers can't refuel THEMSELVES. I think you are right but I think the translation into Harpoon reality is that you can't refuel tankers in general, at least I've never been able to using normal refuelling procedures. There might be a trick to do it, any ideas?? Don

That's why I lobby for some more "automatic" features for re-fueling - such as automatic vectoring of tankers to groups, a la fighter intercepts. I often suffer more losses from re-fueling SNAFUs than from enemy action - simply due to all the micro-managing that it demands at times when my attention is diverted to other pressing matters, such as air engagements and/or other battles. It would be nice, but I think other priorities do exist. Do you use the message system (short cut F10)? When you know you need to do something in the future select the group you'll be giving orders to and hit F10, enter your reminder message then you get a 'time delay' window, select the time delay required. When the time count down has finished you'll get the reminder pop-up and a chance to select the group so you can issue your orders. The F10 can also be put in as an order in the course editor so as to get your reminder at a certain location. This is very handy for arranging IFRs, if you have all group tracks showing calculate approx where you want to meet and course tanker and receiver groups to that spot and for each group put in a F10 reminder to look for the refuel. That way you don't forget. If your refuel spot is within the formation patrol area of you tanker's base you can also put the tanker in patrol formation in the overlapping sector, put in a F10 reminder at an inserted spot in the receiver groups course and when you get there do a 'join' manoeuvre to get the tanker out of formation and into the receiver group, then do the Alt R for immediate refuelling. Hope this helps, Don

That is the term I use. Sometimes I call the others far misses though I doubt very much that is a standard term, clear miss is also used on occasion. I'd say "near miss" and "clear miss" respectively. I'd hope that with the near miss the torpedo has made a sonar fix on you but was unlucky and didn't get a hit, and that with the clear miss it never made contact. Hmm, I might try a test with logging and see what comes of it Don Thomas

If i'm desperate for an early kill and have plenty of torpedoes, I'll launch them in twos or threes, (particularly if the sub has got into range of my standoff weapons, which makes me very nervous as I'm probably in range of all of his weapons). Sometimes the first torpedo goes close (you see it glide past the target in the hit animation) but the second or third slams in for damage points. Even without a kill, the damage may significantly slow the sub or damage it sensors (I assume) and make your escape to safer waters easier, from where you launch attacks at your leisure. If you are lucky (i've seen it maybe twice in three years of play) you sink the attacking sub, definitely worth while Don Thomas

If I'm lucky enough to pick up a Rafale by esm, I turn and run, (but usually I just get shot down)....that's how I deal with them. Don Thomas Not helpful, Donald. Not helpful at all! At least you could have suggested something like "small animals that eat the eggs". That way I would have something to work with. Sorry, Rafales make me feel very temporary. What I do is pretty much standard I guess? I get two of my smallest stealthiest fgt that can flow vlow, I get say four big ugly (and fast) fighters. I fly the stealthy (Hmm, here I think some F16s?, I'd have to check-but that would be too helpful ) fellows down as low as they go (radar off) towards my ESM contact of the Rafales about 20 nm in front of the big fellows flying medium altitude with radar on. I cross my fingures that 1/ The rafales get completely absorbed by the big target and, 2/ I get a red fix on 'em before they fire at either of my guys. I then order my low flying 'killers' to attack the Rafales (if they are already in range of my killers I make sure I am close enough that they won't do the skidaddle). I fire every thing I have and get the killers out high altitude reheat, , if the decoys are in range of the Rafales, ditto, get out on reheat. So actually I do still turn and run (like a choook) Don

Hmmm... Well, is there any reasonable way to accomplish the command of re-fueling a group before it would happen automatically (by virtue of fuel remaining, I guess)? I have situations where I wish to re-fuel a group before their tanks are dry - for any of several reasons. I've been using ALT-R to do this... so perhaps I have been wasting fuel or otherwise fouling things up without realizing it. First, re your case with the tanker running low on fuel. I think the situation is that you can't refuel tankers (in Harpoon). Second, re the Alt R. If you have a group with a tanker with available fuel and units that can receive fuel inflight, then the Alt R will start the normal refuel early. If you have no 'receptive' units the fuel will get dumped. Third, re the order of fuelling, (if I remember correctly), say you have one tanker unit (any number of tankers) and two units (any number of individual planes) of a type that can IFR, the recipient unit with the lowest number (say group = AAA, units=AA00, AA01, AA02 and tankers are unit AA02, then AA00) will get fuel until either all fuel is exhausted or the unit is full, if then fuel remains the next unit will get fuel. If the tanker has more fuel than is needed to fill all planes in the group then that fuel is 'dumped'. So when making up your group you might add last the units that need the most fuel otherwise you might fill the guys that don't really need it and leave the thirsty ones dry. See the posts VictorInThePacific quoted for details on how much fuel you get from a tanker. One interesting tweak for long distance runs, if you have tankers of different types add longest fuel range ones first, you can get multiple refuels in the group if you have two or more tanker units (not two or more tanker aircraft, they must be in different units). The lowest unit number tankers will refuel first and if they don't exhaust their fuel they'll go home without the second tanker unit fuelling the group until you get to the next call for fuel. You need to know how much the group will take each refuel and how much the various tankers supply - it can become very complicated. Remember you can't refuel tankers and they don't seem to want to go home until they have emptied (I think that depends on the game version, it might have been altered at some stage) so make sure you don't take a tanker beyond range of home. Some times getting IFR right is harder than sinking the enemy Don Thomas

All I can advise is to keep watch of what happens and think about why. Get to know how your various bits of equipment work and think about how you can use them to better effect. Try different approaches and find out which work. Don

No genuine question is stupid so no need to forgive. I think you should be able to see the other four parts that make up the sequence ending in FIGHT! as they appear in the westpac section of the downloads below FIGHT!, in date order one below the other They are: Pushing Back(4of5) , a cry for help(3of5),when shove comes to push (2of5), local bully (1of5). Starting from part one they make up a series of scenarios, each leading on from where the previous might well have finished (but not necessarily). Have fun Don Thomas

If I'm lucky enough to pick up a Rafale by esm, I turn and run, (but usually I just get shot down)....that's how I deal with them. Don Thomas

My thought is that a zig zag course should help especially with closing subs but that I can never be bothered to do it unless I know for sure that they're about. Interested to read what others do. DonThomas