In replayng SAW II #16 Protect theBuildup, I felt that the Argentinians were taking too many losses so I re-read the detection chapter and immediately came across 4.2.3.2 Shipboard Air Search Radars.

 

4.2.3.2 "...can detect air targets at very low altitude as well as surface contacts at 5% of their maximum range."

 

The Type 42 carried a Radar 965. Its range versus a small target such as an A-4 Skyhawk is 80nm.

 

If the incoming Skyhawk is flying VLow/NOE and passes the VLow/NOE Crah Table DR is it detected at 80nm*5%=4nm (the range to that specific target, in this case a "small" target) or is it 5% of the maximum range regardless of the specific target - In this case 200nm*5%=10nm?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Pete

Interesting. To my mind, it makes more sense if the detection range is calculated on the basis of that specific target. In this case, at 4 nm.

Interesting. To my mind, it makes more sense if the detection range is calculated on the basis of that specific target. In this case, at 4 nm.

agreed with Brad, but I don't have the H4 experience to back up the opinion with precedent setting cases.

Interesting. To my mind, it makes more sense if the detection range is calculated on the basis of that specific target. In this case, at 4 nm.

Hi Brad/Tony, good to see you all again.

 

My thinking leans toward 4nm as well as it "levels" the playing field for the A-4's. I ran through the scenario twice and the Argies were decimated. I also discovered errors in my play, such as the really short range of the Sea Wolf (data annex is in the car) and the role of the director in limiting the number of missiles in the air at any given time. Hope to re-run this tonight with effects of V/Low flight and directors to see if the A-4's can get any steel on target.

Thwarted - while I still hold out hope for what we have dicussed above, one H4.1 old hand chimed in on the Admiralty Trilogy yahoo group yesterday with his opinion of max range x 5% (200nm in this radar's case).

 

His rational was that at V/Low altitude, the A-4 would be detected after a stealthy a/c. If my proposed interpretation of the rule was applied to a stealthy a/c flying at V/Low, it would not be radar detected until close to 0.5nm.

 

I'll loiter for a while or until I hopefully get an official response, but Paul's position seems pretty strong.

 

I'll forward whatever I hear from Clash of Arms or higher.

Yeah, I saw Paul's response on Admiralty Trilogy, and I must say, he convinced me too. The distinction between "stealthy" and "small" target detection seals it for me. See, I am easy to get along with !

I'm going to attempt this scenario again, maybe tonight based on the 10nm detection (opponents only start 12nm away with the A-4's closing at 2.5nm/movement phase of each Engagement Turn - 600kts/240) and hope to post a blow by blow account. The beauty of these South Atlantic War II scenarios are that they all seem to be on the small side, easily solitaire-able, and "instant action" - Good for learning.

Played the scenario again last night using the interpretation that detection of A/S radar against V/Low aircraft being 5% of the maximum range.

 

Also, some greater understanding of the rules and more familiarity made for a better experience.

 

I also was not using the "Smarter Radar Rules" so radar detection in an engagement turn was 60%. How the interpretation of the AS - V/Low affected it was that the A-4's were not detected immediately by Coventry as the longer ranged British Radar (10nm vs V/Low) did not detect the inbound aircraft and the Type 22's radar was not effective as far.

 

This did not stop one A-4 from crashing into the sea due to blowing his V/LOW-NOE Crash Probability roll while flying at 600kts.

 

The reduced radar effectiveness allowed the three remaining A-4's to make it through the Type 42's Sea Dart effective range.

 

In the end, the final Engagement Turn pitted three A-4's 2nm away from the British ships, with the two Sea Wolf missiles having been launched the previous 2nd Fire Phase, from the Broadsword (Type 22), ready to move.

 

I allowed the missiles to engage the aircraft first because the missiles, at 1,320kts, move 5.5nm per movement phase while the planes, at 600kts, move only 2.5nm fer movement phase.

 

The missile both hit their respective targets, taking out two of the three A-4's. The remaining A-4 attempted horizontal laybown bombing from V/Low (.05) and the three Mk83 stick plunged into the empty sea.

 

British definitely got a scare while the Argentines did not celebrate their National Holiday as planned either.

 

I am gaining a comfort level in the sequence of play and some of the other basics. I will run through this again once we have definitive word on the effectiveness of AS radar versus V/Low

 

Pete

A formal question regarding 4.2.3.2 has been posed to the Trilogy staff. Will post answer when received.

A formal question regarding 4.2.3.2 has been posed to the Trilogy staff.  Will post answer when received.

Per Dave Schueler over on CSW:

 

VLow/NOE Radar Detection Answer

 

Here is the response I got about the radar detection question.

 

The answer is based on the Smart Radar article in The Naval SITREP.

 

Situation: An A-4 (Small Signature) approaching from VLow with land (Pebble Island) behind it. There is no rain, and the scenario's SS 3 will not affect the radar return.

 

Type 965 Radar range from Annex J1: 174/110/82/35/10. 10% of 174 is 17.4. The rule is the smaller of 10% of max range or the range based on the contact's signature. This is because the aircraft has entered the lower edge of the radar's beam. It's not attenuated by distance, so the detection threshold will be very sharp. The problem is usually not signal strength, but if the A-4 had a Stealthy signature, it still would not be detected until it reached 10 nm.

 

The 17.4 nm is halved because of the return from the land mass behind it (4.2.5.2), so the distance is reduced to 8.7 nm. The rule reads "a surface radar," which could be misread as "surface search" but really means a radar transmitting from the surface of the water. Line of sight is a little tricky, since the A-4 is flying into the lower edge of an upward-pointing beam, but if the beam can see the A-4, then it has to see the land behind it as well.

 

This clarification will appear in the next SITREP.

 

Dave