Firstly, is there an area where questions like this about specific scenarios have been asked?

 

Been playing GIUK 2.0 Small NATO ASW Sortie for most of the day. I'm slowly getting better results, but my surface groups keep losing ships before even detecting the sub. First warning i'm getting is that torpedos are incoming in most cases. I am managing to sink around 2 enemy subs per game, but am either running of of time or red is meeting their victory condtions.

 

I have my ships in a very wide formation. It appears that only the only towed arrays on the OHP and the Type 23 FFG are of any use in this arena. I have generous ASW helo patrols, 2 from the American group and 3 on the British group most of the time.

 

When I've been able to detect diesels i've been able to close and kill them. However I detected an Akula once it was well within my group and it was able to kill a ship and escape.

 

This is quite challenging!

I'll tackle the question about where to post. If a question pertains to a particular scenario, then the Scenario Design & Discussion forum is the proper spot. If it is a more general topical question such as ASW tactics in the game, then this General forum is the correct spot. Given your question I'd say either spot fits the bill since you seem to be asking in large part about ASW tactics in general, not strictly for GIUK 2.0.

Firstly, is there an area where questions like this about specific scenarios have been asked?

 

The "Scenario Design and Discussion" forum would be ideal, but here's ok too.

 

Been playing GIUK 2.0 Small NATO ASW Sortie for most of the day. I'm slowly getting better results, but my surface groups keep losing ships before even detecting the sub. First warning i'm getting is that torpedos are incoming in most cases. I am managing to sink around 2 enemy subs per game, but am either running of of time or red is meeting their victory condtions. I have my ships in a very wide formation. It appears that only the only towed arrays on the OHP and the Type 23 FFG are of any use in this arena. I have generous ASW helo patrols, 2 from the American group and 3 on the British group most of the time. When I've been able to detect diesels i've been able to close and kill them. However I detected an Akula once it was well within my group and it was able to kill a ship and escape. This is quite challenging!

 

As you have noticed, detection (and, preferably, as early as possible) is the linchpin to ASW. If you're able to detect a hostile submarine before he's in range to engage you, you've denied him his principal asset: stealth.

 

And if you have any decent ASW tools at your disposal (i.e. helicopters or fixed wing maritime patrol aircraft), you have a significant advantage and the means to deter or destroy the sub before it can threaten you.

 

With only mediocre ASW tools available to you (e.g. ASROC or shipboard torpedoes), it comes down to a knife fight of sorts. Both of you may already be in range of the other, and with the means to destroy each other.

 

Without any ASW tools, your only option is to evade. Possible, perhaps even probable, when facing a conventionally powered submarine. Perhaps unlikely when facing a nuke sub.

 

Fortunately, if you have the means of detecting a hostile sub at standoff range (such as with a towed array or air dropped sonobuoys), it is highly likely you also have the means to destroy him before he can engage you.

Fortunately, if you have the means of detecting a hostile sub at standoff range (such as with a towed array or air dropped sonobuoys), it is highly likely you also have the means to destroy him before he can engage you.

 

I'm thinking that I may keep my formations much tighter. In the particular scenario there is only one platform in each surface group with decent passive (the OHPs towed array is excellent I think!). This may prevent the units at the edge of the formations being 'picked off' by subs.

I'm thinking that I may keep my formations much tighter. In the particular scenario there is only one platform in each surface group with decent passive (the OHPs towed array is excellent I think!). This may prevent the units at the edge of the formations being 'picked off' by subs.

 

Both your escorts (the Perry and the Boxer (Type 22/2) frigates) have excellent towed arrays. You also have an excellent means of destroying an enemy submarine at standoff range (2x Seahawk and 2x Lynx helicopters).

 

I'm trying to keep from giving you direct advice (you might have noticed), because half the fun here is learning what tactics might work best.

 

Keeping a tighter formation will certainly concentrate your defenses and let you have a smaller area to defend, but at the same time it may be inhibiting your best passive sonar performance to have so many ships clustered together in a small space. And your helicopters have to travel further out to drop sonobuoy fields in your path.

 

Also, having your ships closer together means that if and when you do get a sub detection, he's going to be that much closer to your group and all of his potential targets will be grouped ...

 

Have you considered separating one escort from the group and having it (and its helos) search ahead?

Going on what CV32 has suggested I would go as far as to do this:

 

Go into formation editor and change the zone sizes to 4, 24, 32, 48 then rearrange my ships so that the OH Perry (Best AAW of the 2 escorts) is clos in with the frieghters along the most likely angle of attack. This puts the freighters easily within the Perry's AAW range and puts it in front of them so it will be sure to engage the SSMs that are incoming.

 

I would move that type 22 up ahead of the main body along the direction of movement in that 24-32nm mile band to sprint and drift. And finally I would put the Helo's out into the 32-48nm band.

 

Others may do it differently, but thought I'd give you an example.

Thanks for your advice!

 

I'm trying some of these things out at the moment.

 

Can anybody quantify the performance hit on the towed array on the OHP and Type 22 by having other ships nearby? I'm trying to get a feel for how far out ships with good towed arrays need to be. (I know the OHP towed array is pretty awesome..at least thats the feel I got from it playing Dangerous Waters!).

 

(As much as I like flying aircraft, there is something so tense and thrilling about hunting subs).

I'm going to move on from this one. I'm now consistently getting greeted by a torpedo in the water.

It seems the Type 22 passive array isn't helping me too much!

 

How on earth are subs getting into torpedo range without me detecting?

 

I'm only getting chance sonobouy hits every now and then, never anything on the OHP or type 22 passive. I'm staying around 18 knots (under 20 knots per scenario instructions).

I'm only getting chance sonobouy hits every now and then, never anything on the OHP or type 22 passive. I'm staying around 18 knots (under 20 knots per scenario instructions).

 

Don't give up! Staying under 20 kt means you get "some" passive sonar performance. But its far from optimum at that speed. Are you creeping (5 kt or less) at all?

I'm only getting chance sonobouy hits every now and then, never anything on the OHP or type 22 passive. I'm staying around 18 knots (under 20 knots per scenario instructions).

 

Don't give up! Staying under 20 kt means you get "some" passive sonar performance. But its far from optimum at that speed. Are you creeping (5 kt or less) at all?

 

Ah! This is where I'm falling down. It's obvious to me that in reality towed perfomance is not going to be much good at 18 kts....however since the OPORD said stay under 20 I'm thinking thats it...under 20 full performance..over 20...no perfomance.

 

I think I should assume everything functions like it would in reality!

 

I'm going to try this scenario in the morning and creep along the patrol routes. I suppose patrolling at 18 kts is rendering my arrays deaf but providing a nice noisy target for the Akula, Sierra and Kilos...doh!

 

Thanks for the tips...I'm going to stick with this mission until I beat it!

I'm going to try this scenario in the morning and creep along the patrol routes. I suppose patrolling at 18 kts is rendering my arrays deaf but providing a nice noisy target for the Akula, Sierra and Kilos...doh!

 

Keeping in mind your schedule for getting the convoy to port, of course. (This is where the scenario author gets his laughs).

 

Thanks for the tips...I'm going to stick with this mission until I beat it!

 

That's the spirit! Good hunting.

Keeping in mind your schedule for getting the convoy to port, of course. (This is where the scenario author gets his laughs).

 

Actually, I've named the topic half wrong. The Mission is GIUK 3.0 Small NATO ASW Sortie, sorry for any confusion. In 3.0 I have to sink at least three subs and damage others.

 

All the advice so far is certainly applicable though!

Actually, I've named the topic half wrong. The Mission is GIUK 3.0 Small NATO ASW Sortie, sorry for any confusion. In 3.0 I have to sink at least three subs and damage others. All the advice so far is certainly applicable though!

 

LOL. Yes, that would make a difference in some respects, but hopefully the tactics are sound.

Success!

 

I patrolled both surface groups emphasis on keeping the OHP and Type 22 well ahead of the main body. Crept at 5 knots. Detected a Victor III fairly quickly via Sonobuoy. Launched two fish from the detecting Seahawk, 1 hit. I spend the next hour or so tracking him by dropping sonobouys along his path, while waiting for 2 helos to re arm. As soon as they did I dispatched them and dropped 4 more fish right on top of him. Game over for him.

 

Detected a Sierra class some hours later and hunted him down in the same fashion. Again a chance sonobouy hit.

 

All quiet for around 10 hours then I got a SOSUS hit on a Kilo, the British taskforce was around 60 NM away at the time so I vectored a pair of Lynxs' to intercept. The started dropping bouys across the contact area (although both helos dropped bouys very near eachother..hopefully in the future you could select a box or a line type search pattern...personally I would have lay a line of bouys ahead of where the sub was observed to be heading..no matter).

 

In the course of this a bouy picked up a Foxtrot, the dropping Lynx dropped two Stingrays and got him!

 

Minimum conditions met, kept seaching until the end of the scenario with no further contacts.

 

I think the key was creeping...I was making a lot of noise at 18kts and attracting a lot of attention from Type 65s'!

 

I didn't once detect a contact with the towed arrays on the OHP or Type 22...however observing that the subs were usually going 5kts when detected by sonobouy i'm not surprised. I don't think a 30 - 60 NM contact on a SSN is realistic via towed array when he's creeping.

 

Thanks for the help!

Excellent. I think you've gained some excellent ASW experience from this scenario. I would not want to be the sub skipper trying to sneak up on you next time.