Defect Name: AS-4 attacking submarines

Build: HCE 2007.000

Repeatable: Y

Operating System: XP

DB used: HCDB-071223

Scenario used: saved game AS-4 attacking submarines.hpi

Long Description: AS-4 anti-ship missiles have been fired at submarines and attempt to engage them. SSNs were never eligible targets in the first place and were never on the surface.

 

Sequence to reproduce:

1. Run scen and watch as AS-4s attempt to intercept SSNs

 

 

Expected behaviour: AS-4 missiles should not attack submarines

Observed behaviour: AS-4 missiles try to attack submarines

AS_4_attacking_submarines.zip

Herman, was the submarine assigned as part of the SAG?

 

I'm betting that has something to do with it if it is the case.

 

PS I'm at work right now, so I can't take a look at teh file yet.

Yes, the submarines are both in the TF. It's the only surface group there is for Blue.

This is an old issue that has been brought up in the past. Still I have refreshed the discussion on it, and perhaps a solution can be found.

 

Mantis: http://mantis.advancedgaming.biz/view.php?id=1978

Issue has not been resolved by Patch 2008.024

Addressed in 2009.001

Note that in the saved game the missiles have already been targeted on the subs due to errant logic at launch. If you start a new game subs will not be targeted. Though I did write some code that splashes the missiles when they get to the submerged subs (it is logged if missile logging is enabled).

 

- Chg:1978 GE Subs that were not on the surface were being targeted by anti-

ship missiles. Subs now will only be targeted by anti-ship

missiles if they are surfaced. In other words, the player

can use his subs as missile sponges but the player can also

fire missiles at subs when appropriate. When the missile

seeker goes active it will try to acquire a new target if

the original target sub has submerged.

http://mantis.advancedgaming.biz/view.php?id=1978

http://harpgamer.com/harpforum/index.php?showtopic=2502

I'm not sure this works properly.

I wrote a small test program for EC2003 GIUK. Red Keflavik has 4 Blinders with AS-4 missiles. Blue is off Iceland with a small frigate and two small subs. Using the cheat combination, I surfaced one sub and kept the other submerged. Launching the Blinders, they targeted the frigate and the sub. However, in selecting the sub as the target, a missile was alloted and the SA gave the message "Sir, the effective attack range for these aircraft is 267 NM. Target range is 12 NM. Should we close and attack?". If you say No, the Blinder will still launch a missile against the surfaced sub. If you say Yes, the SA gives the message "Sir, Air group ZYA has run out of torpedoes to fire, should they return home?" Yes will RTB the aircraft; No will release the missile.

Again using the cheat, if you submerge the target sub while the missile is on the way, it does not try to target the very visible frigate.

The submerged sub is never targeted.

I have a saved game attached. Unfortunately, there's only one missile left aboard the aircraft to play with.

SUBMIS.zip

I'm not sure this works properly.

I wrote a small test program for EC2003 GIUK. Red Keflavik has 4 Blinders with AS-4 missiles. Blue is off Iceland with a small frigate and two small subs. Using the cheat combination, I surfaced one sub and kept the other submerged. Launching the Blinders, they targeted the frigate and the sub. However, in selecting the sub as the target, a missile was alloted and the SA gave the message "Sir, the effective attack range for these aircraft is 267 NM. Target range is 12 NM. Should we close and attack?". If you say No, the Blinder will still launch a missile against the surfaced sub. If you say Yes, the SA gives the message "Sir, Air group ZYA has run out of torpedoes to fire, should they return home?" Yes will RTB the aircraft; No will release the missile.

Again using the cheat, if you submerge the target sub while the missile is on the way, it does not try to target the very visible frigate.

The submerged sub is never targeted.

I have a saved game attached. Unfortunately, there's only one missile left aboard the aircraft to play with.

 

Nice work on the test scenario. Here is how I interpret it...

1. The errant message about torpedos is unrelated to this defect report and it due to the Blinder trying (and succeeding) to fire from within the AS-4 minimum range. Ideally you will split that out into two new reports, one for being allowed to fire a missile within minimum range and a second for the torpedo message.

 

2. The missiles do not acquire another target after the sub submerges because there are no other targets within the search bearing of the missile (22.5 degrees to either side of the missile heading, the ship is very far outside that search cone). To more properly test this part of the fix you could put a ship on the same bearing from Keflavik as the sub you are attacking but a couple nm farther out.

 

So at present you found two additional issues, confirmed the AS-4 can be launched against surfaced subs, and have insufficient evidence of reacquisition not working (though you wouldn't have known about the seeker search cone).

Oh, joy.

I'll see how much I can do tonight.

Oh, joy.

I'll see how much I can do tonight.

 

That's what we get for fixin stuff <_>

 

On a related note, I wouldn't be surprised if Herman has already reported the within minimum range part, I just don't know off the top of my head if it is already out there.

I do not believe that I have reported any "Inside Minimum Range" problems for HCE.

 

I did report one for ANW, though.

This fix is only half fixed, as far as I can see.

 

Run the saved game "submiss2" in GIUK 2003. You are Red, but the save is in Cheat mode so you can control the Blue subs.

In this version, the left sub (ABR) is submerged and undetected, the right sub (AAU) is surfaced and detected, the mineweeper is on a line directly behind the surfaced sub and is also detected.

1) Have the Red bombers Attack the surfaced sub. 1 missile will be allotted for a Bearing Only Attack. Answer Yes then No to the ASA's next two questions (which are symptomatic of other problems which will be addressed seperately). Eventually, a missile will hit and sink the surfaced sub.

2) Run the save again and once more target the surfaced sub. This time, as the missile in in flight, click AAU and submerge it. The good news is that the missile will not pursue and sink the now-submerged sub. The bad news is that according to the fix, it should lock onto the minesweeper. It doesn't; it just disappears. It doesn't matter how early or how late in the missile's progress the sub gets submerged.

3) The submerged sub is never detected and so never targeted.

 

Both the test scenario and saved game are included the the attachment.

submiss2.zip

You are Red, but the save is in Cheat mode so you can control the Blue subs.

Cheat mode ?! What's the cheat mode ? I want know how to use the cheat mode, please, for my is very interesting for testing of platforms and scenarios ....

Cheat mode ?! What's the cheat mode ? I want know how to use the cheat mode, please, for my is very interesting for testing of platforms and scenarios ....

 

When you are playing a scenario, Ctrl-Alt-s will toggle the show all units cheat on or off. It may affect game mechanics to a minor extent but it can be extremely helpful chasing down problems, testing scenarios, etc.

Thanks, now, to test damage assestment in enemy warships under gun fire (I want to clean and revamp my old WWI and WWII databases, with the new gun rate-of-fire, but this year I've a new job and less spare time !!).