June 2, 201214 yr Another suggestion... The critical factor here, I think, is coordination. If someone volunteers to be a "junior editor," we want to know who that person is, what they're doing, who will be taking a turn adding entries next, etc. And then it always goes to Gunny (or whoever ends up serving as editor for the HUD) for final approval. Otherwise we'll end up with a dozen competing versions of the same database, and I don't think that would be such a good idea. Anyway...any thoughts on this? My thoughts on this are that the Reimer editor should be held in the SVN server I use for HC, one editor checks it out, makes their edits, checks it in. The next editor comes along and does the same. The nice thing about using a source code control server for this is that you can go back to any previous checked in version. Certainly Gunny would only want to approve write access to those he trusts not to cause more harm than good but otherwise it relieves some bottlenecks, not to mention allows you to play around with ideas and share them if they end up being valid. There are other neat add-ons we could do at that point such as automated nightly database builds and setup file creation but that's an advanced topic if using a source code control system for distributed DB editing gets off the ground.
June 2, 201214 yr Hi there, Mark, I could add very easily your weapons/troops tweaks since it was just a matter of copying/pasting data into 2 annexes :weapons and loadouts. It took just a bit time to integrate to other related files, but I knew how and what to do. Having other editors is a good idea, but not wished from me. Reason for it is simple: there are people around Harpoon with their own agenda, and files with data would be a nice catch for them. HUD3 was made against the Players' Database, and HUD4 follows the same rationale. Only a few persons should have the files, it limits the risk of falling into wrong hands. I'm sorry for that, but human nature makes some adults behave like children and other have to bear the consequence of the aforementionned immaturity. FG
June 2, 201214 yr Reason for it is simple: there are people around Harpoon with their own agenda, and files with data would be a nice catch for them. HUD3 was made against the Players' Database, and HUD4 follows the same rationale. Only a few persons should have the files, it limits the risk of falling into wrong hands. I'm sorry for that, but human nature makes some adults behave like children and other have to bear the consequence of the aforementionned immaturity. FG
June 2, 201214 yr Author Hi there, Mark, I could add very easily your weapons/troops tweaks since it was just a matter of copying/pasting data into 2 annexes :weapons and loadouts. It took just a bit time to integrate to other related files, but I knew how and what to do. Having other editors is a good idea, but not wished from me. Reason for it is simple: there are people around Harpoon with their own agenda, and files with data would be a nice catch for them. HUD3 was made against the Players' Database, and HUD4 follows the same rationale. Only a few persons should have the files, it limits the risk of falling into wrong hands. I'm sorry for that, but human nature makes some adults behave like children and other have to bear the consequence of the aforementionned immaturity. FG I do not know enough about how databases work to fully understand the nature of the problem, but I trust Gunny's judgement on this. Again, I'm just trying to figure out ways to speed up the process, possibly reduce his workload, etc., but if it's not a workable idea then that's just the way it is. I'll be happy to see any updates and additions that can be made, but the HUD 4 already has such a large number of platforms that I'm not likely to run out scenario ideas for a very long time.
June 4, 201214 yr I do not know enough about how databases work to fully understand the nature of the problem, but I trust Gunny's judgement on this. Again, I'm just trying to figure out ways to speed up the process, possibly reduce his workload, etc., but if it's not a workable idea then that's just the way it is. I'll be happy to see any updates and additions that can be made, but the HUD 4 already has such a large number of platforms that I'm not likely to run out scenario ideas for a very long time. I wish Gunny's stance was about the database itself. Rather it is about the ego's and personalities of the editors I alluded to before. Both the World War III and the Common Database projects were crushed/crashed by the egos of the editors. I will own my own part of the blame (I am a Stubborn Irish-German after all!) However many others were involved in both. At it's height the World War III database had 16 editors. 4 of whom were prodigious producers of platforms. One of the editors took the world war III database and made it his own, released it and then proceeded to play political games to cause descention in the ranks of the World War III project and Harpoon2 as well. I won't go further into details but said editor was LEGALLY within the rights and culture of his home country. But, both Ethically and within the rest of the world regulations (US, Canada, Germany and Japan where all the remaining editors resided,) was highly unethical and highly illegal. The common database was an attempt by many of us editors and political players in the Harpoon community of the late 1990s to heal the wounds of the theft and political firestorm caused by the WWIII database theft. It fell under the pressure of it's own weight. Ok enough on that subject. Still a sore spot of mine 14 years later... Craig P
June 4, 201214 yr Another suggestion... The critical factor here, I think, is coordination. If someone volunteers to be a "junior editor," we want to know who that person is, what they're doing, who will be taking a turn adding entries next, etc. And then it always goes to Gunny (or whoever ends up serving as editor for the HUD) for final approval. Otherwise we'll end up with a dozen competing versions of the same database, and I don't think that would be such a good idea. Anyway...any thoughts on this? My thoughts on this are that the Reimer editor should be held in the SVN server I use for HC, one editor checks it out, makes their edits, checks it in. The next editor comes along and does the same. The nice thing about using a source code control server for this is that you can go back to any previous checked in version. Certainly Gunny would only want to approve write access to those he trusts not to cause more harm than good but otherwise it relieves some bottlenecks, not to mention allows you to play around with ideas and share them if they end up being valid. There are other neat add-ons we could do at that point such as automated nightly database builds and setup file creation but that's an advanced topic if using a source code control system for distributed DB editing gets off the ground. Now I wish I knew even a smidgen of Access or SVN programming... This kind of tool could have saved many great DB projects in the past. Tony, How much coding would be required to covert the Reimer editor to allow this?
June 4, 201214 yr My thoughts on this are that the Reimer editor should be held in the SVN server I use for HC, one editor checks it out, makes their edits, checks it in. The next editor comes along and does the same. The nice thing about using a source code control server for this is that you can go back to any previous checked in version. Certainly Gunny would only want to approve write access to those he trusts not to cause more harm than good but otherwise it relieves some bottlenecks, not to mention allows you to play around with ideas and share them if they end up being valid. There are other neat add-ons we could do at that point such as automated nightly database builds and setup file creation but that's an advanced topic if using a source code control system for distributed DB editing gets off the ground. Now I wish I knew even a smidgen of Access or SVN programming... This kind of tool could have saved many great DB projects in the past. Tony, How much coding would be required to covert the Reimer editor to allow this? Zero The basic principle http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.6/svn.intro.whatis.html You wouldn't get the true beauty of SCC (Source Code Control) at the zero code changes level but you get the ability to go back to any version, split off a different branch of edits, and such. The beauty comes in the ability to merge changes from multiple editors back into the main copy (known as the trunk). With the Reimer editor that last piece of magic isn't possible. Still I view the ability to hop between versions to be very valuable for distributed database editing in that it allows you to deny a whole set of changes.
June 4, 201214 yr At it's height the World War III database had 16 editors. 4 of whom were prodigious producers of platforms. One of the editors took the world war III database and made it his own, released it and then proceeded to play political games to cause descention in the ranks of the World War III project and Harpoon2 as well. I won't go further into details but said editor was LEGALLY within the rights and culture of his home country. But, both Ethically and within the rest of the world regulations (US, Canada, Germany and Japan where all the remaining editors resided,) was highly unethical and highly illegal. The common database was an attempt by many of us editors and political players in the Harpoon community of the late 1990s to heal the wounds of the theft and political firestorm caused by the WWIII database theft. It fell under the pressure of it's own weight. As someone who was watching from the sidelines but did some work for it, I can confirm. Proof is: you will not find my name near anything I did An interesting side of the story is that the best way to understand the worldview of the guys involved one only has to read what they accuse others of. When they do this, they actually describe themselves in an eerily exact way. It comes from the idea that if you are the center of the universe then all the universe must be like you, I guess.
June 5, 201214 yr The basic principlehttp://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.6/svn.intro.whatis.html You wouldn't get the true beauty of SCC (Source Code Control) at the zero code changes level but you get the ability to go back to any version, split off a different branch of edits, and such. The beauty comes in the ability to merge changes from multiple editors back into the main copy (known as the trunk). With the Reimer editor that last piece of magic isn't possible. Still I view the ability to hop between versions to be very valuable for distributed database editing in that it allows you to deny a whole set of changes. Uh, Jon had a version that was floating out there in Beta that allowed some of the above. He was attempting to develop an Access editor internal SVN type device. I no longer have this beta (Too many hard drive crash and burns over the years and it was VERY Buggy.) But if that could be found again could it now be used to work out a modified editor to further support SVN? Just a thought Craig P
June 5, 201214 yr Uh, Jon had a version that was floating out there in Beta that allowed some of the above. He was attempting to develop an Access editor internal SVN type device. I no longer have this beta (Too many hard drive crash and burns over the years and it was VERY Buggy.) But if that could be found again could it now be used to work out a modified editor to further support SVN? Just a thought Craig P What he was working on in large part became the HC PE (Platform Editor) with separate interface and data files. The trouble is that the data file is still in MS Access format so would not further merging disparate edits. Still don't count out the other benefits
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