May 12, 201114 yr After designing a scenerio and closing the editor, I'll open the game and open the scenerio that I just created. All of the enemy ships will appear on the screen. This seems to happen after being in the scenerio editor and displaying both sides at once. What gives? Thanks, Steve
May 13, 201114 yr Steven, you´re talking about HUE ANW 3.10.1 and its scenario editor? I´ve stumbled over this one, too, when I tested a friend´s new scenario. Looks like a scenario editor bug. Best bet would be to directly contact AGSI = Don Gilman via the official Matrix forum. If you want to stay clear of annyoing issues like these, use the 3.6.3 version included in the bundle. This is the legendary last version before ANW (versions 3.7 upwards) which is free of game stopping bugs like this. Don´t like to point that out, but it´s experience proven. Regards, Ralf
May 13, 201114 yr Something I forgot: Which database are you using? Please specify exactly; especially when talking with the developers at Matrix/AGSI.
May 13, 201114 yr Author Something I forgot: Which database are you using? Please specify exactly; especially when talking with the developers at Matrix/AGSI. I was using 3.9.4.0 with HUD 3 1.3.21 DB. I'll contact Matrix. Thanks for your help. To save me some time are their any major differneces between 3.6, 3.9 and 3.10? Thanks, Steve
May 13, 201114 yr Steve, H3 up to 3.6.3 and H3 ANW 3.7 onwards are at first glance nearly identical. It is still the same user interface known from H2 back to 1994. No development regarding this aspect. The latest ANW version is the HUE ANW = 3.10.1. Compared to 3.6.3, the last version of the old production line, it has some fascinating and unique features: - ship-to-ship underway replenishment - boarding of hostile ships - takeover of hostile land facilities - chained missions These are really nice features. The problem with ANW 3.7 onwards is that there are many bugs or weird behaviours in it. While 3.6.3 has only a few minor bugs and a really tough AI, ANW / HUE 3.10.1 has definitely more bugs and sometimes behaves really weird and annoying. In many situations, the ANW AI acts less aggressive and sometimes outright dumb. I play Harpoon for 20 years now and I think I know what I´m talking about. You will find similiar statements by other experienced players even if we might strongly disagree on other issues, especially when it comes to databases. Especially the ANW scenario editor has some strange issues, one rather new one seems to be the one you suffered from. That´s a reason why several scenario writers only use the 3.6. scenario editor afaik. Hope this helps, Ralf
May 13, 201114 yr Hi guys, check the postures of the sides in your scenario. If a side is friendly to more than one other side then all three sides can see each other clearly. For example: Side A is hostile to Side B and vice versa....but Side C is friendly to both A and B and vice versa.....because both A and B share information with C, then C will pass on that information to both sides. This may be the cause of your problem. THis can be fixed by a simple change of posture between the linking side. Let me know how it works out. Later D
May 14, 201114 yr Dale, Hi guys, check the postures of the sides in your scenario. If a side is friendly to more than one other side then all three sides can see each other clearly. For example: Side A is hostile to Side B and vice versa....but Side C is friendly to both A and B and vice versa.....because both A and B share information with C, then C will pass on that information to both sides. This may be the cause of your problem. THis can be fixed by a simple change of posture between the linking side. Let me know how it works out. Later D Interesting, I´ll check the scenario I got for testing under this aspect. It doesn´t make sense, anyway, though: - if a side is hostile to another, there must not be the possibility to see the other´s data - how can a side be friendly towards two sides hostile to another? Neutral would be the utmost I think. Regards, Ralf
May 14, 201114 yr Interesting, I´ll check the scenario I got for testing under this aspect. It doesn´t make sense, anyway, though: - if a side is hostile to another, there must not be the possibility to see the other´s data - how can a side be friendly towards two sides hostile to another? Neutral would be the utmost I think. Regards, Ralf Ralf, This is one of those 'features' that has hidden uses. If A and B are hostile and vice versa and C is friendly to A and B and vice versa, then A and B still see each other as hostile, but do share through C, course, speed, mission name etc. Interestingly, they cannot fire upon each other. Now suppose C is has only one unit, and it is destroyed after a while by a side D, then A and B lose contact are are free to fire on each other. Ive used this very often to either delay hostilities, or even to ensure that two sides played by AI dont fire on each other but only on the player side. Freek
May 14, 201114 yr Dale, Hi guys, check the postures of the sides in your scenario. If a side is friendly to more than one other side then all three sides can see each other clearly. For example: Side A is hostile to Side B and vice versa....but Side C is friendly to both A and B and vice versa.....because both A and B share information with C, then C will pass on that information to both sides. This may be the cause of your problem. THis can be fixed by a simple change of posture between the linking side. Let me know how it works out. Later D Interesting, I´ll check the scenario I got for testing under this aspect. It doesn´t make sense, anyway, though: - if a side is hostile to another, there must not be the possibility to see the other´s data - how can a side be friendly towards two sides hostile to another? Neutral would be the utmost I think. Regards, Ralf Good points for the game, but not without precedent in the real world I'd have to say. Buddha
May 14, 201114 yr I don't know for sure Ralf. I'd have to check the scenario to be sure but that's the usual reason for the problem. In all the years of Harpoon, postures have been on of the few areas that have given us the least amount of trouble. What I've done on several scenarios, is add a second side with the same name as another side. This adds confusion to the mix and can complicate the IFF process. For example, all of my scenarios have at least one neutral merchant ship. But if you're going to be looking for a merchant ship carrying nukes, then you could have the 'regular' Merchant Shipping side with all the neutral ships, and another 'Merchant Shipping' side that is hostile to your forces. You'd need proper intel or alot of luck to pick up the ship. This is also a useful thing to do when you are modelling a side embroiled in a civil war, or for targeting a specific set of units without fear of reprisal..... Later D
May 14, 201114 yr I don't know for sure Ralf. I'd have to check the scenario to be sure but that's the usual reason for the problem. In all the years of Harpoon, postures have been on of the few areas that have given us the least amount of trouble. What I've done on several scenarios, is add a second side with the same name as another side. This adds confusion to the mix and can complicate the IFF process. For example, all of my scenarios have at least one neutral merchant ship. But if you're going to be looking for a merchant ship carrying nukes, then you could have the 'regular' Merchant Shipping side with all the neutral ships, and another 'Merchant Shipping' side that is hostile to your forces. You'd need proper intel or alot of luck to pick up the ship. This is also a useful thing to do when you are modelling a side embroiled in a civil war, or for targeting a specific set of units without fear of reprisal..... Later D Very interesting, for more than 15 years I've not played/edited Harpoon 2/ANW (tons of bugs, bugs,bugs and a not-friendly too cumbersome interface and platform editor), and now I remember the sides feature was one of the most interesting, but I imagine it's very difficult to implement it on HCE.
May 14, 201114 yr Freek, Interesting, I´ll check the scenario I got for testing under this aspect. It doesn´t make sense, anyway, though: - if a side is hostile to another, there must not be the possibility to see the other´s data - how can a side be friendly towards two sides hostile to another? Neutral would be the utmost I think. Regards, Ralf Ralf, This is one of those 'features' that has hidden uses. If A and B are hostile and vice versa and C is friendly to A and B and vice versa, then A and B still see each other as hostile, but do share through C, course, speed, mission name etc. Interestingly, they cannot fire upon each other. Now suppose C is has only one unit, and it is destroyed after a while by a side D, then A and B lose contact are are free to fire on each other. Ive used this very often to either delay hostilities, or even to ensure that two sides played by AI dont fire on each other but only on the player side. Freek This is a very creative way to use this issue for creating challenging situations, indeed. Regarding Steve´s situation, we need his scenario in order to check the postures I think. Regarding the one I got for testing, the 'feature' is simply an unwelcome bug: You open the game playing one side and instantly have a god´s view on all hostile units. Even if this posture issue would be the cause - then the friendly third party only should give away the info it can gather- correct? But if you see anything hostile on the whole map - annoying. Regards, Ralf
May 19, 201114 yr Good points for the game, but not without precedent in the real world I'd have to say. Buddha In real life that's called a, "double agent"...
June 18, 201114 yr Author Good points for the game, but not without precedent in the real world I'd have to say. Buddha In real life that's called a, "double agent"... I have soooo forgot about this. When I get back home Ill post the scenerio or look into the postures. Thanks folks.
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