Tony

TonyE Here is the reworked scenario with minimal change. Minor adjustment to placement and elimination of some alt start points. 4 for blue 1 for red. RW pirate.scq.zip

Update formation patrol issues and AI aircraft issue fixed with latest builds of 2020,005.

Tested and no more freezes with all scenarios test both blue and red. Conversion to 2003 show no problems either.

The Rafael though a disappointment to French engineering is no longer hypersonic. Back to just supersonic.

Cool. I will look for it and take all the scenarios I can find for the 2000 series for a test spin. With conversion to 2003 capability it was add some new scenario variations to HC.

I have encountered a hypersonic Rafael in the You and Me Scenario created in the 2000 Norwegian Sea Battleset. In the test scenario provided I have a blue base in UK in which a single SR71 is based and a second blue base in Norway. The red base contains Rafael C which are put on patrol in the formation editor. Upon launching the SR71 to ferry to the Norwegian base and activated the radar the Rafael C soon goes hypersonic to intercept the SR71. Further testing shows this does not happen with the B or M version of the Rafael. It was brought to my attention that in the 2000 BS the platform display for these three are similar aircraft varying in only the top speed which for the Rafael B and M is 1147 while for the Rafael C 9696 which is the speed show in the test scenario. Similar test were ran with the Rafael M and C all versions in the 2003 version GIUK but no similar hypersonic activity was observe. Though the event seems not occur in when scenarios are converted from the 2000 BS to it comparable 2003 BS being able to play with scenario as originally created adds some variables to it. testC.BKm

Thanks Tony Let me know if there is anything else I can do. Might just need to rebuild all those scenarios with the current build and DB in the end

I have ran three scenarios which were created for EC2000 Norwegian Sea and then tried again converting to EC2003 GIUK. The results for each scenario were different depending on what side you ran it from Red Or Blue. Converting to 2003 had no differ results. Here are my results with the three scenarios attached for testing. Time compression and DB for 2003 had no different affect. Cv32 did not stop responding when ran from either Red or Blue side. You_And_Me_Against_The_World would stop responding when ran from the Blue side but would run fine from the Red side. Eurofed 1 would stop responding for both Blue and Red sides. This was identical behavior for the other Eurofed, Altfed, Medfed and IOPfed series. I am attaching the three scenarios which were tested by Me and Eustice with the same results. The scenarios stopped responding anywhere between 5 and 10 minutes into game time. You_And_Me_Against_The_World.zip EuroFed1.zip cv32.zip

Hey Jeff This section is for the computer game version basically you versus and AI. It would be better to repost your post to Harpoon 4 section where the paper game forum is. It also talks about Version 5 coming out to and rules I believe.

The F/A 18F seems to have taken the growlers number of 015 without being replaced while before it was 016 so I assume that is the renumbering you are referring to seeing and not so much the Growlers change. .

On number one that sounds right to me. At save TS4A all four units in the formations editor act as if they have an AirPatrolEvent associated with them is present. With TS4B it would seem by you debugging the reload seem to canceled the AirPatrolEvent for that single unit and further saves cancel more AirPatrolevents as seen beginning with TS5 and TS6. On the growler question I went back to check your question on the growler airpatroleven. What I notice was the growler landed as unit 015 but took off as 019. I then decide to produce a save right after the replacement growler took off and it seems that event trigger the preceded or triggered the lost of the F/A-18F AirPatrolEvent. I also notice that the growler assumed a patrol from the ASW ring to the outer most ring. Is this what you and Eric are seeing?

No problem TonyE and haven't we all been having a lovely time.

The above was done with 2020.003 and database 15928

TonyE I ran the game with the 2020.003 and it seemed all was running as intended. I saved the game and was going to continue the today. Upon loading the saved games I then notice that my flights in the formation editor had been changed form mission type to aircraft type. This resulted in with no action them crashing and even the the patrols not be refreshed with new aircraft. Red planes started to achieve similar occurrences of crashing aircraft. I then made a test scenario Bltest by reducing the amount of bases and units to attempt to reduce amount of data produced. I have also provided several saves at intervals in the game. Everything was fine if no saves produced after 6:21:45 were loaded and no aircraft seemed to go into limbo on either side. The T4 saves are in the time between 6:22:00 and 6:21:00 where things changes. Saves T4 6:22:00 and T4a 6:21:45 when reloaded resulted in no changes to formation aircraft but when T4b was reloaded 6:22:30a squadron of F18 went into limbo as well as a few Su35 squadrons of the red bases resulting over time all running out of games and crashing. I hope this helps. Letting the test scenario just run resulted in no formation aircraft lost to fuel issues. Each save after T4b seems to contribute to more squadrons going into formation limbo and eventual lost. Bltest.zip TESTSAVES.zip

I was crossing my fingers too as I like the long played out scenarios but when the AI kills more of their aircraft then you do it takes a bit out. Thanks for responding so quickly. Unfortunately I will need the link as I went right by 2020.03 to 2020.04. I have no problem with reloading the game to check. So sending me the link will be needed. One other thing of possible significance is that as many times I have played block 2 the aircraft in the AI are more responsive now to my aircraft meaning a lot more intercepting formations come at me then ever before since loading 2020.04 change. The lost of aircraft are mainly from bases and fleets I have not made contact with or them with me. The loses take place seem to take place with the first replacement aircrafts if the first do not breakoff for an intercept. I believe you have mentioned this before but with my aircraft I monitor the description of the separate groups in the formation editor goes from their mission type to their aircraft type. Once this happens that cannot be recalled from the formation editor but must be split to send back to the base of fleet or they will run dry and die. So send me the link and I will see what happens. Thanks again Tony

I just reloaded HUCE then updated from reload to 2015.27 to 2018.002 to 2020.04. I still get AI aircraft running dry and crashing and if I do not keep tabs on my formation patrol aircraft they on occasion will still do this. I was wondering if virtual memory settings would help to remedy this as it seems to happen in scenarios in which large amounts units over whelm the ram. I am currently running 12GB ram. The scenarios do not freeze up so I think virtual memory is not the problem but thought I would check. I run the block 2 med scenario and planes and helos start dropping about 4 hours game time. For this to seemingly be recreated it seems to be able to in one of the larger more unit intensive scenarios is which large numbers of aircraft are basically have long loitering time before reacting to the opposition aircraft. This I believe would create a needle in the haystack situation in finding the possible cause. As 2020.03 a correction was made to prevent this would just reloading to 2020.03 instead of to 2020.04 have a different effect. Any other possible things to that might have a effect?

In large scenarios it was hard to keep a picture on around the battle zone as it would just wipe out message every second. Thanks again Tony

I have notice the coming up on my message log more frequently making my message log basically useless. It seems to happen more often with larger scenarios. I would like to know what might cause this and how it may be disabled. It seems to happen whether or not I have the ignore no ship movement on or off in staff options. I am wondering if it may be a memory problem or running the scenario with a database more current then the one it was written with. I have looked for this in topic search but cannot find anything on it.

1 As you set each waypoint you can use orders for attack, speed, land and sensors. At each waypoint you can change the speed and sensor set but I believe once you used the attack order the waypoints are basically ignored until the attack is over as when if you gave aircraft a manual order which clears the course you laid in. Land rewrites you course order to just land. If you wish to changes orders while the unit is following your course you can by unchecking the insert box and use the next and previous buttons to highlight the orders in the left column. You can edit speed and sensor orders or delete an order such as having an aircraft fly to a base but not land but loiter by deleting the land command and set a speed command to loiter. 2 I think this is based on the handling characteristic of the aircraft for turn and climb rate. Basically a fighter can turn and burn while a AEW, and other similar aircraft can not. Some bombers like the B1 and some Russian bombers do have turn and burn capability but not such as a fighter. Getting familiar with the turn rates on units can help avoid getting into those situations before hand. In the message log you can see the response time for speed orders. 3 I believe only when attacking and when set a patrol area in the formation editor will ASW aircraft conduct a pattern without your direct control. You can not set a pattern in course orders as the manual sonobouy key does not work in it. Hope this helps.

Oh good for a moment their I was beginning to feel a bit cursed. Ok how do I do that as I cannot find any options folder in my \Matrix Games\HUCE folder.

The HC Launcher looks a bit detail for me but would require a bit of study before I tried using it. I have one other request as I have another issue. Could you look at your formation screen from the saved game and 2019.01 and see if it is has been affected. Mine now looks like the screen shot below. It allows no interaction.

I ran from the save before the crash and experience no more crashing even when I used save or save as feature. I let it run for awhile with the autosave timer set to 2, 5, and 10 minutes but the timer would not create a saved game. I am pretty sure it was working as that is how I noticed the timing of the original crash. I am wondering if I might have disabled it and have contemplated just reloading the whole game again. I thought I would ask if you had any ideas first.

Will do. Just to check if I loaded 2018.02 then 2018.11 I can just ahead and loaded 2019.01. Will this version test be able to run from the save games PAC.4 save game I sent you?

As a far less experience harpooner then CV32 and TonyE , I would suggest sticking to the stock scenarios given in the battle sets at first to learn the different units and tactics used. The earlier battlesets also are easier on learning formation patrols, weapons and sensor range circles. As you notice while weapon circles are pretty much set as sensor detection range circles also will take into account the unit you are trying to find as technology differ, a Kilo class is much harder to find then a November class. You will learn which units are best and how to use them. A P3 Orion detecting a sub along way from your units is better then a ship which usually finds a sub already in its weapons range which instead of a laid out plan of attack, Orion, you have a shootout and likely damage control. As you progress the scenarios will encompass more units and aspects of warfare which requires different application of tactic based on the units provided. The first battlesets are somewhat hardwired while the latter 2003, Westpac and others add more aspects like in air refueling which adds to possible tactics and flexibility of units used. They also use different databases which show improvements in units which mean the Victor you fought yesterday is not the same beast today. When you comfortable then move onto the user scenario where they become larger area's, more units and surprises. One thing about harpoon is it is progressing with the help of the staff of this website so today's tactic will not necessarily be the best down the road so tomorrow harpoon might be a whole new challenge. If you have questions just email me to help lighten the load on the two people you have already met. Also alot of question can be answered just by searching the topics in the forums along with some present and historical information.

Sounds good, let me know if and how I can help.