October 28, 200817 yr From Jane's China considers next-generation Su-33s for aircraft carrier programme By Reuben F Johnson 28 October 2008 China's People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) is close to reaching a decision on the procurement of aircraft for its aircraft carrier programme, Russian industry sources have told Jane's. Negotiations between the PLAN and the Komsomolsk-na-Amure Aviation Production Association (KnAAPO) in Russia have been held intermittently for several years, with the Chinese military said to be unsure whether to purchase a version of the Sukhoi Su-33 carrier-capable fighter or develop its own carrier aircraft based on the Chengdu J-10. Russian sources have now told Jane's that under the current proposal the Russian in-service Su-33 would be put back into production and the PLAN would acquire 14 of this type to be used for the training phase of the programme. This option will see a carrier aircraft delivered to the PLAN in the shortest possible timeframe. The development of a new-configuration aircraft to be used in actual carrier operations would take place in parallel with this training programme. "The next step will be to modernise the Su-33, which was first designed in the late 1980s, with a new set of state-of-the-art onboard systems," a KnAAPO representative told Jane's on the eve of the biennial Air Show China in late October. "What this new aeroplane is most likely to be is a combination Su-33 airframe with a radar, avionics and cockpit instrumentation that is a 'developed' configuration based on the Su-30MK2, and this will be the PLAN's operational version."
October 28, 200817 yr Author That PLAN CV is going to make a nice periscope pic as it goes down someday. Perhaps, possibly even likely in a shooting war, but I'd keep in mind that most recently it was the Chinese who were taking periscope pics of the Kitty Hawk.
October 29, 200817 yr Point taken. I think it's time we start tailing their SSKs with our SSNs and at some point during the tailing cook them a bit with active sonar to remind them we have hunters, too. DN
October 29, 200817 yr Author I think it's time we start tailing their SSKs with our SSNs and at some point during the tailing cook them a bit with active sonar to remind them we have hunters, too. I'd be interested in hearing how easy (or difficult) it really is to tail an SSK. Granted, most Chinese SSKs have to date been of the noisier variety (as far as SSKs go), but that is changing. SSKs don't move very fast, and when they're quiet, they can be as quiet as the grave. Even SSNs make some noise (pump noises and all that) when making steerage.
October 29, 200817 yr That's true, but given current data I'd put our passive sonar's ability to locate a PLAN SSK significantly beyond their passive sonar's ability to locate our SSN. Not that it would be easy... BTW, anybody else thinking we should bring the S-3s back? DN
October 29, 200817 yr Author That's true, but given current data I'd put our passive sonar's ability to locate a PLAN SSK significantly beyond their passive sonar's ability to locate our SSN. Not that it would be easy... Moving any distance from shore, I'd agree. Bottomed out, close to shore, I wouldn't bet on it.
October 29, 200817 yr That's true, but given current data I'd put our passive sonar's ability to locate a PLAN SSK significantly beyond their passive sonar's ability to locate our SSN. Not that it would be easy... Moving any distance from shore, I'd agree. Bottomed out, close to shore, I wouldn't bet on it. Hmmm ... even against a Virginia?
March 11, 200917 yr Author From Defense Talk Russian-Chinese Su-33 fighter deal collapses RIA Novosti | Mar 11, 2009 MOSCOW: Russia has refused to sell its Su-33 carrier-based fighters to China over fears that Beijing could produce cheaper export versions of the aircraft, a Russian daily said on Tuesday. The Moskovsky Komsomolets newspaper said that China and Russia had been in negotiations on the sale of 50 of the Su-33 Flanker-D fighters, to be used on future Chinese aircraft carriers, since 2006, but that the talks collapsed recently over China's request for an initial delivery of two aircraft for a "trial." Russian Defense Ministry sources confirmed that the refusal was due to findings that China had produced its own copycat version of the Su-27SK fighter jet in violation of intellectual property agreements. In 1995, China secured a $2.5-billion production license from Russia to build 200 Su-27SKs, dubbed J-11A, at the Shenyang Aircraft Corp. The deal required the aircraft to be outfitted with Russian avionics, radars and engines. Russia cancelled the arrangement in 2006 after it discovered that China was developing an indigenous version, J-11B, with Chinese avionics and systems. The decision came after China had already produced 95 aircraft. This time, Russia refused the Chinese offer even after Beijing had offered to buy 14 Su-33 aircraft, saying that at least 24 jets should be sold to recoup production costs. However, the Moskovsky Komsomolets said that the Su-33 deal may be reviewed later because China desperately needs carrier-based aircraft to equip its first indigenous 48,000-ton aircraft carrier, due to be built by 2011. Beijing has also announced plans to build a nuclear-powered aircraft-carrier by 2020. Chinese media recently quoted China fleet commander Adm. Xu Hongmeng as saying: "China will very soon have its own aircraft carrier." The Su-33 is a carrier-based multi-role fighter, which can perform a variety of air superiority, fleet defense, air support and reconnaissance missions. The aircraft entered service with the Russian Navy in 1995 and are currently deployed on board the Nikolai Kuznetsov aircraft carrier. Russian Su-33 naval fighters are significantly cheaper than any similar foreign models, such as the French Rafale-M, or the U.S F-35C or the F/A-22N Sea Raptor.
March 11, 200917 yr Author From Defense Talk Russian Su-33 naval fighters are significantly cheaper than any similar foreign models, such as the French Rafale-M, or the U.S F-35C or the F/A-22N Sea Raptor. Just how much is a "Sea Raptor" going for these days?
March 16, 200917 yr Author From Jane's Su-33 talks twist and turn as China seeks carrier-borne fighter By Reuben F Johnson 16 March 2009 Negotiations for the sale of Sukhoi Su-33 carrier-capable combat aircraft to the Chinese People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) are still continuing with both sides interested in coming to a final agreement, Russian industry sources have told Jane's. "Previous reports that these discussions are at an end or that the 'contract has been cancelled' are incorrect," said a Russian source close to the programme. "The pattern with the PLAN and Chinese industry on this subject has been the same for several years," the source continued. "It is almost like a series of waves, you could say. They come to us with a high level of interest, asking a lot of questions, then their interest seems to fade into the background and then sometime later - the next wave - they are back with more questions again. "It is obvious they are trying to build their version of the Su-33 or some type of carrier aeroplane, but for various reasons they cannot accomplish this on their own and whenever they reach some technological impasse they come back to us to try and learn what will get them to the next step in the design process."
March 23, 200917 yr Author From RIA Novosti China confirms plans to build aircraft carrier 15:25 | 23/ 03/ 2009 BEIJING, March 23 (RIA Novosti) - China's defense minister has reaffirmed the country's plans to build its own aircraft carrier, the Sina news agency reported on Monday. It quoted Liang Guanglie as saying that "among the big world powers only China does not have an aircraft carrier, so it cannot be without an aircraft carrier forever." China's Ministry of National Defense spokesman said in December last year that aircraft carriers were "a reflection of a nation's comprehensive power" and were needed to meet the demands of a country's navy. Experts have suggested construction could be officially announced in April, when the Chinese Navy marks its 60th anniversary. According to the Wall Street Journal, China's first aircraft carrier will enter service by 2020.
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