As consequence of some post interchanged with Brad the other day, I've make a chart about the plane carrying capacity of a great number of Aircraft Carriers and other plane-capable ships.

First, some comments about it and the numerical values in the attached file.

Basically, as commented a few days ago, I've detected some incongruence in HCE/HUCE Databases, I think now the problem comes from the paper rules and from his application to Computer Harpoon and his DBs.

In the paper rules it's not the numerical limitation of the Computer Harpoon database, and a player can research in naval books and do changes in plane capacity as result, it's only a pencil and paper issue.

When an Harpoon paper rules annex (or a naval history book) states a determined air wing for an aircraft carrier, this data is mostly correct (number and plane type), but this number of aircraft embarked in a concrete air wing are not the upper numerical limit of planes of that concrete ship, and it affects the Computer Harpoon databases and play.

I think this can be the confusion origin and the origin of the low number of planes stated as carried on some Computer Harpoon databases. It's not important in the paper rules, but in the Computer Harpoon it can limit in some cases inclusive even historical air wings. Also, in the proposed values I added a very slight margin up to the plane capacity.

Also, they are some inconsistencies in the same ship in her historical evolution, going up and down her number of planes in the same database, probably as consequence of evolution of her carrier air wing.

About the Game Engine compatibility, the number of planes in each carrier or aviation capable ship in the Computer Harpoon DBs only can be increased, if the number is decreased, the game crashes if is present a ship who plane capacity has been decreased.

Also, in future air wings (from 2013 on), is probable the adoption of smaller UAVs in the carrier air wings, increasing also the number of smaller planes capacity (same thing for some very small aircrafts, as the diminutive A-4 Skyhawk).

Another problem, in old aircraft carriers, mainly Japanese or American ones, some planes were stored disassembled as spares, or hanging from the hangar roof. I propose add the number of spare/disassembled planes to the grand total.

From the Cold War end the US carrier air wing was reduced, but as the carriers were not modified or decreased in aircraft carrying capability, her number of planes should not to be reduced.

In other cases, as Ark Royal in WWII, the French Clemenceau and Foch, the Russian Kuznetsov or very probably the Queen Elizabeth CVF, budgetary restraints and lack of planes precludes the use of complete air wings, and looks as carriers with less aircraft capacity as her real capacity.

The main problems are centred in the big US carriers and in some UK carriers.

At last, and as consequence of the research I did, as solution to these conflicts I propose to employ the numbers in the right column as "plane capacity" in the HCE/HUCE DBs.

Modificaciones Harpoon Aircraft Carriers Capacity 2013.pdf

Excellent work, Enrique. Thank you very much.

In keeping with my database design philosophy, which aims for:

 

* realism based on open source intelligence (OSI)

* not breaking previously created scenarios

* following the 'Harpoon/Admiralty Trilogy' paper rules and sources wherever it makes sense

 

I think we can adjust aircraft carrier capacity as follows:

 

Use the maximum capacity found in the available, credible OSI, or Harpoon paper rules, as long as:

 

a. The capacity must match the period for which the DB is applicable. For example:

 

e.g. Nimitz (CVN-76) in the HCCW (1950-75) might be different from Nimitz in HCDB (1980-2015).

 

and

 

b. The capacity in existing DB entries cannot be adjusted downward, in order to avoid breaking scenarios.

With Enrique's permission, here is the document with reformatted tables

plus Enrique has added second table for World War II and earlier time periods.

 

 

 

 

Modificaciones Harpoon Aircraft Carriers Capacity 2013.pdf

Thanks Grumble!

Thanks, guys. The adjustments to aircraft carrier capacity will begin to be seen in the next iteration(s) of the DB(s).

 

It may be a bit of a creeping effort, as I will be making adjustments cautiously (given that we cannot go backward).

About the Clemenceau, clearly capable of 46 aircraft of her usual size and types, as in 1976:

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/porteavi/clem/histoire.htm

12 mars au 18 mai : Traversée Toulon-Tahiti par le cap de Bonne-Espérance. Le 12 mars le porte-avions appareille avec un groupe aérien mixte composé de douze Alizé (9F), six Etendard IV M (17F), quatre puis trois Etendard P (16F), dix HSS (31F), quatre Super Frelon (27S), quatre Alouette 3 et six Alouette 2 (22S).

Total=46

11 au 17 juin : Participation aux exercices Meditex 71 et Constellation dans le cadre des manoeuvres nationales interarmées (Manat 71) avec à son bord un groupe aérien de 40 avions (10 Crusader, 6 Alizé, 24 Etendard)

Total=40, I think also two Alouette III as Pedro.

22 mai au 10 juin : Sortie de printemps de l'escadre de l'Atlantique en mer du Nord et mer de Norvège. Escale à Kristiansand (Norvège) du 1er au 5 juin, puis opération "Rayon vert" : reconnaissance des Etendard jusqu'aux iles aux Ours et interceptions pacifiques d'avions de patrouille maritime soviétiques "Bear" et "Badger" par les Crusader. Groupe aérien :10 Alizé 4 F, 8 Crusader 14 F, 18 Etendard IV M, 11 F et l7 F, 4 Etendard IV P, l6 F.

 

Total=40, I think also two Alouette III as Pedro.

28 septembre : Le groupe Saphir (TO 624.2) est constitué. Il se compose du Clemenceau, du Tourville, du Bouvet, des pétroliers ravitailleurs Saone et Aber Wrach. A bord du porte-avions sont embarqués le commando Jaubert, quatorze Etendard IV M (17F), trois Etendard P (16F), huit Crusader (14F), cinq Alizé (4F), huit HSS (33F), deux Super Frelon (32F) et deux Alouette III (22S).

Total=42

More about Clemenceau (I think I finded a limit in the text extensión in the previous post):

5 avril : Le groupe appareille vers Djibouti sous le commandement du C.A. Ménettrier (ALPA). Le groupe aérien: six Alizé (4F), seize Etendard IV M (17F 11F), quatre Etendard IV P (16F), dix Crusader (12F), deux Super Frelon (32F), deux Alouette (23S). Le canal de Suez est franchi le 12 avril et le porte-avions arrive à Djibouti le 16.

Total=40

Also, I think her decrease in number of air wing composition was only because the short disponibility of F-8 Crusaders in the last times, as in this 1995 composition, with only 4xCrusader:

4 juillet : Appareillage de Toulon en compagnie du Cassard et de la Marne. Le groupe aérien est composé de quatorze Super Etendard (11F), quatre Etendard IV PM (16F), quatre Crusader (12F), cinq Alizé (4F), deux Super Frelon (33F), deux Dauphin et une Alouette III (23S) et deux Puma (ALAT).

Total=34.