File - Serious Syria 2019

[Mgellis]

File Name: Serious Syria 2019

File Submitter: Mgellis

File Submitted: 15 May 2011

File Updated: 27 Jul 2012

File Category: Scenarios

DB Used: HUD3-1.5.5

Authors: Mark Gellis

Battleset: No Information

 

Command an E.U. convoy on its way to Syria to provide humanitarian aid. Syria may try to stop you from "aiding the rebels." Comments, observations, and suggestions are welcome.

 

Click here to download this file

[JSF]

Hi Mark,

 

 

 

I´ll test it this weekend.

 

What about finishing all your H3 scens written so far and post them as a battleset?

[Mgellis]

Hi Mark,

 

 

 

I´ll test it this weekend.

 

What about finishing all your H3 scens written so far and post them as a battleset?

 

 

When I have enough that I think are worth posting, I can do that. Is there anything involved in posting them as a battleset besides just putting them in one folder?

 

Scenario being developed right now...it's 1975 and France intends to provide military aid to the counter-revolutionaries in Benin; the Soviets are backing the Marxist revolt in Benin and have a task force and some subs in place and have moved some aircraft to Benin's one airport with a reasonably large airstrip...

 

The French have a carrier with F8s and Alize and Alouette IIIs, a cruiser, a destroyer, a couple of light frigates, a couple of supply ships, and a couple of Daphne-class submarines. The Soviets have...but that would be telling.

 

The French must run the blockade...

 

I haven't gotten all the way through yet...results are mixed...sometimes the French do pretty well and sometimes Soviet aircraft give them a serious pounding...and the main Soviet forces haven't even found them yet...

 

Mark

[JSF]

Mark,

 

yes, it is nice to include a battleset descriptipn file = dsd-file. Ican show you how to create that or do it for you.

 

 

This new scenario underway sounds promisiing. You use the latest HUD 3 = V 1.6.1?

 

 

 

Regards,

 

Ralf

[Mgellis]

Mark,

 

yes, it is nice to include a battleset descriptipn file = dsd-file. Ican show you how to create that or do it for you.

 

 

This new scenario underway sounds promisiing. You use the latest HUD 3 = V 1.6.1?

 

 

 

Regards,

 

Ralf

 

Yes. I have to set it in 1975 because that is the earliest point at which the Exocet would be available. Even so, the French are limited to the Foch, the Colbert, the Suffren, the Commandante Riviere frigates (the task force has two of these), the Ouragan as an amphibious ship, and the Daphne sub (again, they have two)...the older oilers, etc. aren't in the HUD3 database so I just list a standard tanker and a freighter as supply vessels. I'm assuming they put into a French-friendly port close enough to Benin to resupply, refuel, etc. before making their way into action.

 

(I don't want to give away the OpFor but it was a lot easier to cover the Soviets...a lot of the older cruisers, destroyers, and submarines are in the HUD3.)

 

I can see myself doing a lot of scenarios set in the 1980s (or late 1970s) and 1990s...the HUD3 (well, ALL of the databases, really) have a lot of older Cold War platforms; many of them were out of service by 1990.

 

I'm hoping to see some of the newer ones I suggested that didn't make it into the HUD3 1.61 get added for the next incarnation (along with any I missed...I'm not sure if I recommended the Baracuda, the new French submarine)...I like working with the HUD3, now that I'm used to how Harpoon 3 does things, and I'd love to see the HUD3 capable of handling any scenario from 1975 to 2025.

 

Also, I think I may have spotted a minor error in the HUD3...when I tried to add Super Frelons, I could only put one on the carrier and it soaked up the rest of the hanger space. I gave up and just gave the carrier a couple of extra Alouette IIIs. The Super Frelon isn't THAT big, is it?

[HUD3]

Yes. I have to set it in 1975 because that is the earliest point at which the Exocet would be available. Even so, the French are limited to the Foch, the Colbert, the Suffren, the Commandante Riviere frigates (the task force has two of these), the Ouragan as an amphibious ship, and the Daphne sub (again, they have two)...the older oilers, etc. aren't in the HUD3 database so I just list a standard tanker and a freighter as supply vessels. I'm assuming they put into a French-friendly port close enough to Benin to resupply, refuel, etc. before making their way into action.

 

(I don't want to give away the OpFor but it was a lot easier to cover the Soviets...a lot of the older cruisers, destroyers, and submarines are in the HUD3.)

 

I can see myself doing a lot of scenarios set in the 1980s (or late 1970s) and 1990s...the HUD3 (well, ALL of the databases, really) have a lot of older Cold War platforms; many of them were out of service by 1990.

 

I'm hoping to see some of the newer ones I suggested that didn't make it into the HUD3 1.61 get added for the next incarnation (along with any I missed...I'm not sure if I recommended the Baracuda, the new French submarine)...I like working with the HUD3, now that I'm used to how Harpoon 3 does things, and I'd love to see the HUD3 capable of handling any scenario from 1975 to 2025.

 

Also, I think I may have spotted a minor error in the HUD3...when I tried to add Super Frelons, I could only put one on the carrier and it soaked up the rest of the hanger space. I gave up and just gave the carrier a couple of extra Alouette IIIs. The Super Frelon isn't THAT big, is it?

 

Mark,

 

The Super Frelon is a "Large" aircraft and in fact the largest aircraft the Clemenceau class ever shipped. They were only carried between 1992 and 1997. There is a slight issue with the carrier in the database if you want to use them. The single unit you can add is due to the runway type. So yes, you can only carry one at present.

 

CLEMENCEAU AIR GROUPS:

 

• 1961: 2 flights Etendard IVM, 1 flight Alize, 1 flight Aquilon (UK

Sea Venom) and US SAR/ASW helo (HSS-1, HUP-2)

 

• 1978: Air group 8 F-8E(FN) Crusader, 15 Super Etendard, 8 Alizé,

2 SA.365F Panther, 4 SA.365F Panther.

 

• 1992: 7 F-8E(FN), 20 Super Etendard, 6 Alize, 4 Etendard IVP, 4

Lynx or 4 Super Frelon

 

• 1997: 6 F-8P, 20 Super Etendard, 6 Alize, 2 Panther, 4 Etendard

IVP

 

• 1999: Foch air wing for Balkans conflict: 16 Super Etendard

Modernise, 4 Etendard IVP, 3 Super Frelon SAR helos.

 

Foch was retired in 2000. So for only 6 of a 39 year service record, the Super Frelon made an appearance... Therefore it wasn't a "must have" when I originally updated the carrier. I'll attempt to work through the air capacity figures and add the capability, although I'm snowed under with a scenario project for AGSI and the associated DB edits required. Air capacities are a nightmare to work with so 4 x Lynx might be a better option for now.

 

Further queries:

 

What older oilers? The Official Harpoon 4.1 Annex only carries the Durance which entered service in 1976. If you're going up against Syria I doubt you'd need oilers anyway. I mean if the French vessels can't cover the Mediterranean without support, if was probably best the French decided to stand out of NATO... I've checked the Command at Sea annexes, and there's nothing but a submarine support ship listed. So the official data covering from, 1925 until today only lists the Durance class for French replenishment vessels... I'll need stats, names or something to go on if you want the "older oilers" added. I don't like adding vessels I have to "invent", the project I previously mentioned is requiring me to break my own rules and I'm really not happy about that. As an interim I've added the refuel flags to the Clemenceau class so they can refuel their escorting destroyers...

 

Which other older French vessels do you want added?

 

Darren

[broncepulido]

I do mention of this site only as easy reference about French warships and fleet composition year by year:

In service ships:

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/listes/alphabet.htm

Decommissioned ships:

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/listes/desindfr.htm

Fleet composition year by year:

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/listes/desindfr.htm

(the same link, down in the page)

[HUD3]

I do mention of this site only as easy reference about French warships and fleet composition year by year:

In service ships:

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/listes/alphabet.htm

Decommissioned ships:

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/listes/desindfr.htm

Fleet composition year by year:

http://www.netmarine.net/bat/listes/desindfr.htm

(the same link, down in the page)

 

Thanks very much.

[HUD3]

broncepulido,

 

Do you have a Spanish site(s) I could use?

 

Cheers

 

Darren

[Mgellis]

Further queries:

 

What older oilers? The Official Harpoon 4.1 Annex only carries the Durance which entered service in 1976. If you're going up against Syria I doubt you'd need oilers anyway. I mean if the French vessels can't cover the Mediterranean without support, if was probably best the French decided to stand out of NATO... I've checked the Command at Sea annexes, and there's nothing but a submarine support ship listed. So the official data covering from, 1925 until today only lists the Durance class for French replenishment vessels... I'll need stats, names or something to go on if you want the "older oilers" added. I don't like adding vessels I have to "invent", the project I previously mentioned is requiring me to break my own rules and I'm really not happy about that. As an interim I've added the refuel flags to the Clemenceau class so they can refuel their escorting destroyers...

 

Which other older French vessels do you want added?

 

Darren

 

Okay, I was just curious. I can use the Alouette III (which a 1981 copy of Jane's I said were used on the Clemenceau-class) or the Lynx 4. Thanks for the information on the aircraft--that is very helpful. Are the early helicopters (HS1, HUP2) in the database? I couldn't find them.

 

The 1975 scenario isn't against Syria, but against a limited Soviet force south of Benin.

 

As for the oilers, I couldn't find older ones either (except the Rhin depot ships, and they're general resupply vessels, I think, not oilers), which is why I assumed the French would just draft a commercial tanker into service if they needed one. I figure that in any situation where a navy needs tankers, transports, etc., if it does not have its own, it will just hire some merchant vessels and do its best to protect these unarmed targets. Resupplying from merchant vessels like this is probably a major pain in the neck (and probably requires one to get to a port somewhere) but at least the stuff isn't thousands of miles away. I mean, you can't just waltz into a Wal-mart in Zaire and say "could have a few dozen 500-kg. bombs, please?"

 

As for a "70s Wish List" of things that could be added to the HUD, French vessels would include..

 

R97 Jeanne d’Arc

Type T 47 DDG (Kersaint D 622)

Type T 47 ASW (Maille Breze D 627)

MSC Aggressive (France had a bunch of these ex-US minehunters...actually, it looks like a LOT of countries had these and held onto them for a while...)

MSC Adjutant (see above)

La Charente (only because it’s also a command ship = target)

Rhin Depot Ship

 

And for the Soviets...almost anything anyone would need is already there, but, if possible, I'd like to see...

 

Matka (missile boat)

Zhuk (coastal patrol boat...fairly large class and it shows up in a lot of Third World navies later on...)

Yurka class minesweeper (see above)

Vanya minesweeper (see above)

 

(As you can see, I'm trying to identify classes that would have wide utility...very common classes that ended up with lots of smaller navies.)

 

Mark

[broncepulido]

I regret it but I don't know actually none good site about the Spanish Navy/Armada Española.

For easy and fast reference of Spanish ships when I edit my own DBs I use habitually the Wikipedia (and some odd Spanish books), both in English and Spanish, and also because we usually ever consult only data sometimes in other languages, with sourcebooks in they own language reflected in the Wikipedia (it's a good habit to use the Wikipedia in many languages at time, as another example, about German planes it's very useful to use the Wiki also in German. And don't be afraid by foreign languages, I even use the Russian variant of the Wiki and other Russian links, with tools as http://www.online-translator.com/ it's very easy to obtain an aproximative translation (as example, cars =machine (as in the Italian usage and other East Europe languages macchina) usually means car, but it means aircraft in our usual contexts)).

But here I show you some links:

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armada_Espa%C3%B1ola

 

The Armada Española official site (I'm very surprised, it's very improved from my last visit, I visit it only casually, it was usually very outdated and with limited data):

http://www.armada.mde.es/ArmadaPortal/page...a/_inicio_home/

 

Good site for Spanish platforms and recently updated, but only current ships and configurations, don't forget the Descubiertas are mostly OPV from 2004 without Sea Sparrow/Aspide (I see the F-105 has some differences in electronics and 25mm Mk38 mod 2 guns not present in the previous F-100 FFGs):

http://www.buquesdeguerra.com/buques/fraga...-de-bazan-f-100

 

Another ship list:

http://www.losbarcosdeeugenio.com/barcos/ae_list_es.html

 

Ships deployment:

http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6005

 

Blog about old ships (apparently only DDs):

http://buquesdelaarmada.blogspot.com/

 

Site don't updated from ten years ago, but with some good data:

http://www.revistanaval.com/armada/

 

Forum of the above mentioned site:

http://boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?user=morato

 

Defence industry news:

http://www.infodefensa.com/?page_id=59

http://www.ateneadigital.es/RevistaAtenea/...PortadaHome.asp

 

About very old topics and ships:

http://www.armada15001900.net/

 

And if you want any particular data don't doubt on ask me, in the forum or by private e-mail

 

Enrique,

[Mgellis]

CLEMENCEAU AIR GROUPS:

 

• 1961: 2 flights Etendard IVM, 1 flight Alize, 1 flight Aquilon (UK

Sea Venom) and US SAR/ASW helo (HSS-1, HUP-2)

 

• 1978: Air group 8 F-8E(FN) Crusader, 15 Super Etendard, 8 Alizé,

2 SA.365F Panther, 4 SA.365F Panther.

 

• 1992: 7 F-8E(FN), 20 Super Etendard, 6 Alize, 4 Etendard IVP, 4

Lynx or 4 Super Frelon

 

• 1997: 6 F-8P, 20 Super Etendard, 6 Alize, 2 Panther, 4 Etendard

IVP

 

• 1999: Foch air wing for Balkans conflict: 16 Super Etendard

Modernise, 4 Etendard IVP, 3 Super Frelon SAR helos.

 

Well...I tried to set up the carrier with the right air group, but...

 

* the Etendard IVM is in the database, but cannot be added to the carrier.

* the Sea Venom is in the database, but none of its stores are part of the carrier's magazines

 

For now, I will just use the 1978 air group with Alouette III helicopters instead of HS1 and HUP2...the scenario is set in 1975, so it's close enough...

 

Mark

[HUD3]

Well...I tried to set up the carrier with the right air group, but...

 

* the Etendard IVM is in the database, but cannot be added to the carrier.

* the Sea Venom is in the database, but none of its stores are part of the carrier's magazines

 

For now, I will just use the 1978 air group with Alouette III helicopters instead of HS1 and HUP2...the scenario is set in 1975, so it's close enough...

 

Mark

 

Mark,

 

I've just fixed the Etendard IVM, it was missing the carrier capable flag, hence it wouldn't show in the add aircraft list.

 

The DH. 112 Sea Venom FAW.53 is the Australian version. There's no British or French version in the Database, hence the French carrier doesn't ship the weapons required... The Aquilon as the Sea Venom FAW.20 was known, was in service from 1954 - 65. The F-8E (FN) Crusader entered service in October 1964...

 

Many of these early platforms are actually almost outside the scope of the HUD3 and were planned to be added to an earlier HUD based DB covering the period from the 1960s through to 1975. I've not commenced work on that project, in fact I've already commenced on the HUD3 - CaS (Command at Sea) representing the period from 1925 to 1960.

 

The proposed "plan" for DB development would look something like this:

 

HUD - FGDN (Fear God and Dread Nought) 1901 -> 1925

HUD - CaS (Command at Sea) 1925 -> 1960

HUD - EME (Early Missile Era) 1960 -> 1975

HUD3 - 1975+

 

Unfortunately I don't have access to a cloning machine so everyone will have to be patient.

 

Cheers

 

Darren

[Mgellis]

Well...I tried to set up the carrier with the right air group, but...

 

* the Etendard IVM is in the database, but cannot be added to the carrier.

* the Sea Venom is in the database, but none of its stores are part of the carrier's magazines

 

For now, I will just use the 1978 air group with Alouette III helicopters instead of HS1 and HUP2...the scenario is set in 1975, so it's close enough...

 

Mark

 

Mark,

 

I've just fixed the Etendard IVM, it was missing the carrier capable flag, hence it wouldn't show in the add aircraft list.

 

The DH. 112 Sea Venom FAW.53 is the Australian version. There's no British or French version in the Database, hence the French carrier doesn't ship the weapons required... The Aquilon as the Sea Venom FAW.20 was known, was in service from 1954 - 65. The F-8E (FN) Crusader entered service in October 1964...

 

Many of these early platforms are actually almost outside the scope of the HUD3 and were planned to be added to an earlier HUD based DB covering the period from the 1960s through to 1975. I've not commenced work on that project, in fact I've already commenced on the HUD3 - CaS (Command at Sea) representing the period from 1925 to 1960.

 

The proposed "plan" for DB development would look something like this:

 

HUD - FGDN (Fear God and Dread Nought) 1901 -> 1925

HUD - CaS (Command at Sea) 1925 -> 1960

HUD - EME (Early Missile Era) 1960 -> 1975

HUD3 - 1975+

 

Unfortunately I don't have access to a cloning machine so everyone will have to be patient.

 

Cheers

 

Darren

 

No problem. It was really kind of random that I picked the 1975 Benin setting. Mostly, I was just looking at various historical events looking for ideas and saw that one and thought, "hmmm...French carrier vs. Soviet cruisers/land-based aircraft...yes, that definitely has possibilities..." and it sort of took off from there. I'll just do the best I can with what is already in the database. If need be, I can always rewrite the scenario so it's 1980 instead of 1975. And in the future, I'll just stick with the 80s and 90s for "historical" scenarios. That still leaves me with plenty of material to work with.

 

Mark

[JSF]

This thread is about "Serious Syria" - isn´t it?

 

 

Have started with it. Not long after scenario start somebody took out several Syrian vessels with TASMs.

 

The first oberservation/question: Do the US - again - use TASMs? Or will they do it in 2019? If the answer is no to both questions, then the TASMs should be removed from the magazins - works nicely in H2/H3.