I would like to keep this thread clean. No side topics, please.

 

The early Hawkeye has several deficiencies compared to a modern AEW aircraft. However, it will not be present during the normal time frame of most Harpoon scenarios, and its opponents are much less capable than modern aircraft as well.

 

One deficiency is the lack of ESM, so the E-2B does not detect radar emissions. The other deficiency is a "vertically-challenged" radar: without look-down, shoot-down (LDSD) capacity, radar ranges at most altitudes are halved. That is, the E-2B radar only works at full efficiency in its own altitude band and one level up. In particular, the E-2B can detect common enemy fighters at best at 80 nm, but often only at 40 nm.

 

These deficiencies can be overcome, but it takes a bit of effort. One solution would be to stack two Hawkeyes, one at low altitude, one at high. Unfortunately, there probably aren't enough of them for this to be practicable. Another solution would be to change the altitude of the Hawkeye on a regular basis. A third solution would be to fly the Hawkeye at low altitude. This would not cause any new problems for most situations, where the common opponents will be small fighters flying at low. These planes cross the low-low radar horizon of 78 nm about the same time the Hawkeye radar could pick them up in any case. However, a Hawkeye flying at low is much less able to detect ships and large planes flying low due to horizon effects. A fourth solution would be to support the Hawkeye with complementary units.

 

When an enemy fighter approaches the Hawkeye, it will turn its radar on as soon as it believes itself to be observed. It may even be approaching with radar on in any case. Unfortunately, the Hawkeye can't detect the radar. So put an ESM-capable unit, such as a Vigilante, nearby! The Hawkeye induces the enemy plane to turn on its radar, and the Vigilante detects that!

 

How dangerous are the enemy fighters? If they are coming in at 600 kn, then they are travelling 5 nm in 30 s. That is, each time the Hawkeye fails a detection (about 50%), the fighter closes by a further 5 nm. If the fighter closes from 40 nm to 20 nm, which happens about 6% of the time, the Hawkeye is in serious danger. 6% is rare, but not very rare. Since the fighters in question can't shoot further than 5 nm, there should still be time to deal with them if they are located further than 20 nm away. But it is clear that the Hawkeye needs to be closely escorted by many friendly fighters.

 

Some enemy fighters have no radars, so they will never be detected by ESM. Of course, these fighters have only guns, so they should be located even by visual means before they actually get to shoot.

So put an ESM-capable unit, such as a Vigilante, nearby! The Hawkeye induces the enemy plane to turn on its radar, and the Vigilante detects that! ...

 

Nah, I wouldn't waste a valuable reconnaissance asset like a Vigilante in the role of close escort for an E-2B. Plus, it has relatively short legs, so you will have to be cycling a lot of Vigilante sorties just to keep one on station with the E-2B.

 

The better course of action - and this lends itself to most situations in which an E-2B is going to be used - is to keep the E-2B in relatively close proximity to the fleet. Most all of which will have ESM and decent radars themselves. In the E-2B era, enemy antiship missiles were relative fledglings, so you need not worry excessively about attracting hordes of missiles down upon the fleet.

 

Moreover, if your E-2B is flying in the Vietnam war, say off Yankee Station, chances are it will have a PIRAZ ship offering cover in the Gulf of Tonkin anyway. Another line of ESM, radar and SAM defense.

 

But it is clear that the Hawkeye needs to be closely escorted by many friendly fighters.

 

I won't often give my E-2 a direct escort. If its an E-2B, then I can rely largely on the cover of the fleet as described above.

 

If its an E-2C operating in later years, through the 1980s or the modern era, a bit of fighter escort might be needed, usually as a function of how close to enemy airfields you are. In the open ocean, not so much.

 

Either way, you won't need "many", and the extra fighters I am sure could be used elsewhere. All you may need is a pair, perhaps, to deal with leakers and snoopers.

In my untrained mind I see the E-2B as a kind of large mast for mounting my ships' radars, I put them within the groups CAPs and at medium altitude which (if I correctly interpret all the performance data) doesn't greatly , if any, reduce its use as the likely hood of high alt incomers is pretty low and it still has much the same performance against them, but better performance against the more likely low level incomers.

Don Thomas

In my untrained mind I see the E-2B as a kind of large mast for mounting my ships' radars, I put them within the groups CAPs and at medium altitude which (if I correctly interpret all the performance data) doesn't greatly , if any, reduce its use as the likely hood of high alt incomers is pretty low and it still has much the same performance against them, but better performance against the more likely low level incomers.

Don Thomas

 

Putting the E-2B at med alt. will give it full radar range vs. high & med. alt. targets, but half radar range vs. all others. It will also reduce its radar horizon against all targets, which may not be relevant except against large, low planes or ships.

 

The E-2B at med. alt. does not do better vs. low targets than the E-2B at high.

So put an ESM-capable unit, such as a Vigilante, nearby! The Hawkeye induces the enemy plane to turn on its radar, and the Vigilante detects that! ...

 

Nah, I wouldn't waste a valuable reconnaissance asset like a Vigilante in the role of close escort for an E-2B. Plus, it has relatively short legs, so you will have to be cycling a lot of Vigilante sorties just to keep one on station with the E-2B.

 

The better course of action - and this lends itself to most situations in which an E-2B is going to be used - is to keep the E-2B in relatively close proximity to the fleet. Most all of which will have ESM and decent radars themselves. In the E-2B era, enemy antiship missiles were relative fledglings, so you need not worry excessively about attracting hordes of missiles down upon the fleet.

 

Moreover, if your E-2B is flying in the Vietnam war, say off Yankee Station, chances are it will have a PIRAZ ship offering cover in the Gulf of Tonkin anyway. Another line of ESM, radar and SAM defense.

 

But it is clear that the Hawkeye needs to be closely escorted by many friendly fighters.

 

I won't often give my E-2 a direct escort. If its an E-2B, then I can rely largely on the cover of the fleet as described above.

 

Either way, you won't need "many", and the extra fighters I am sure could be used elsewhere. All you may need is a pair, perhaps, to deal with leakers and snoopers.

 

Brad, you are right, for both real life and the general Harpoon situation, especially in terms of defensive use of the Hawkeye and protecting it. I was really talking about my "favorite" Thanh Hoa Bridge (THB) scenario.

 

I do point out that using ships to cover the ESM gap of the E-2B immediately runs into the 30 nm horizon problem.

 

The specific problem in the THB scenario is not dealing with offensive Vietnamese fighters. Rather, it is a question of digging those fighters out of their holes, so that when the attack planes go in, the enemy fighters no longer exist. And because the fighters have very short ranges, they like to stay hidden in their "holes" until something comes close. Sending Phantoms in alone leads to dead Phantoms because the Phantoms are relatively blind.

 

So ... drum roll ... the Phantoms need to take the Hawkeye with them ... right into the danger zone! BUT the Hawkeye is itself blind in a particularly important way, so ... drum roll ... the Vigilante needs to go there too.

 

The whole combined-arms group, Hawkeye (x2), Vigilante (x2), lotta Phantoms, add a bunch of Intruders and Corsairs for more ATA missiles and more eyeballs, "creeps" forward slowly, ready to retreat if necessary, and sanitizes the area. Leave any part of the group out, and you will be losing friendlies. All of this action takes place over land, while the ships are 300 nm away and can't help.

 

Is this heresy?

 

Somehow, I feel like Billy Mitchell.

I was really talking about my "favorite" Thanh Hoa Bridge (THB) scenario.

 

Funny, I didn't see Thanh Hoa Bridge mentioned in your first post. Scenario fixation, perhaps?

 

So ... drum roll ... the Phantoms need to take the Hawkeye with them ... right into the danger zone! BUT the Hawkeye is itself blind in a particularly important way, so ... drum roll ... the Vigilante needs to go there too ... Is this heresy?

 

Heresy, no. Is it the only way to play the scenario? Of course not.