Using the new Sitrep 31 air rules. Regarding Initial conditions of a Dogfight: If a F-16a with a maneuver rating of 4.0 is dogfighting a Mig-23MF with a maneuver rating of 3.0, does the F-16 get to fire first, even though the Mig-23 has a speed advantage?

 

In my test scenario: A F-16a had to maneuver to avoid a SARH missile attack from the Mig-23MF, thus reducing its speed to 350 knots. The Mig 23 was zipping along at 700 knots before the range closed to Dogfight range. Should I have added +2 to the Mig-23s maneuver rating due to speed when the dogfight began? Now, the Mig has a maneuver rating of 5.0 and would get to go first. This would have made a huge difference in my dogfight.

 

thanks

Hi Mike,

 

"Planes with a higher Maneuver Rating move before planes with a lower Maneuver Rating. If two planes have the same Maneuver Rating, the plane with the higher full military power speed at that altitude moves first. If their speeds are also the same, flip a coin" - (Sitrep #31, Page 14, Right Column, paragraph righ above the Aircraft Gun Lethality Index).

 

For dogfighting with guns, you are to compare the attacker's speed at FMP to that of the defender at FMP. (7.1.1 4). I compare the respective FMP speed list on each Aircraft's data form, not their current speed. My reasoning is that the FMP difference is effecting the Maneuver Rating. Not saying that it's right. Maybe someone more in tune with the air rules can chime in

Hmmm. It seems a little unrealistic that an aircraft with a 350 knot advantage in speed would not get to go first. Also, if a aircraft is behind another at the start of a dogfight, I should think it should go first irregardless of the maneuver rating. For the first round only.

That's my take on it and I'm open to others thoughts on it.

I did a Bekka valley test scenario a few days back. F-16a vs Mig 23MF.

 

After the salvo of SARH missiles from the Syrians, the Falcons were scattered and low on energy. No kills and beyond dogfight range. But the Floggers lit the burners and accelerated and were able to close with a big speed advantage. I played the rules as written and even though a few of the falcons were disadvantaged( a flogger in its rear arc ) the falcons were still able to go first and two of the floggers that were in a position of advantage (falcon in its forward arc) were shot down before they had a chance to fire.

 

It was a slaughter! Half the Syrians were splashed. No losses to the Israelis.

 

Ill replay and do an AAR

Hmmm. It seems a little unrealistic that an aircraft with a 350 knot advantage in speed would not get to go first. Also, if a aircraft is behind another at the start of a dogfight, I should think it should go first irregardless of the maneuver rating. For the first round only.

 

Mike, see 7.1.9 Special Starting Conditions (optional) first turn special modifiers such as you are concerned with, speed, position etc. Go for it.

Replayed the scenario. Results did vary. But overall, it was a little less one sided. The Syrians were able to destroy a Falcon that was disadvantaged initially. Then the Israelis went to work and destroyed 4 of the 8 Mig 23s. 1 of the 4 Falcons was splashed. Seems a little more realistic.