Since mines are a relatively new addition to the game I thought I'd ask if anyone has pointers on setting up a believable and effective water/land mine field.

 

Mostly for water, but here are the Qs.

 

What is the best depth to place them at?

 

How many would make a decent field?

 

How far apart should I place them?

 

In my few experiments with them, I almost always end up getting them into what I consider far to large an area. This could just be my perception however.

Hey Akula,

 

Great to see you jumping into Scen Design.

 

Here is a consideration for you:

 

There is a known minefield bug. Check it out on the bug list.

 

This might just be my idiosyncracy, but I think that the best mine fields might be ones consisting of a single mine. From my experience, I seem to find that when one sub unit in a group is detected, the remaining units appear to show up almost instantly afterwards. Not always, but usually pretty quickly.

 

This is not true in all cases. Sometimes, I am able to detect just a few mines with the others remaining hidden. I haven't done any testing for it.

This might just be my idiosyncracy, but I think that the best mine fields might be ones consisting of a single mine.  From my experience, I seem to find that when one sub unit in a group is detected, the remaining units appear to show up almost instantly afterwards.  Not always, but usually pretty quickly.

 

After reading Herman's comment, it immediately occurred to me: what would anyone do after finding a single mine ? Start looking around for more, right ? It only seems natural to me that once one mine is found, the others quickly follow. There might be some room left for tweaking the "stealth factor" with mines, but I find they work fairly well in the sim. The purpose of mines after all is not really so much to stay invisible, and sink random ships (although that is always a bonus), but rather to be discovered, to foster fear and apprehension, and to thereby block, impede and slow down freedom of movement.

Remember how USCENTCOM's attention was gotten when USS Tripoli (LPH-10), acting as the flagship of the US Mine CounterMeasures Group Staff, and USS Princeton (CG59) struck technologically old mines within hours of each other back in 1991.

 

While it is accepted as truth that the whole deployment of of Marine forces aboard amphibious shipping and the establishment of Fire Support Areas for the battleships and other fire support ships off the coast of Kuwait was a feint to keep Iraqi forces pinned there while XVIII, VII Corps did the deep left hook, the effectiveness of these early 1900's technology weapons against a ship that was actively searching for mines and using technolgy designed for that purpose is startling.

 

See the photo on this site of the damage inflicted on Tripoli.

 

Ref: Geocities Pentagon GulfLink site

 

Whether searching for mines at land or at sea, the searcher always strives to find the mines on his terms.

 

Proceeding also had an article or two of the counter mine efforts in the northern Persian Gulf immediately following Operation Iraqi Freedom I.

 

IMHO, a mine actually sinking/damaging a ship is just a bene as how the knowledge of mines being in an area effects the conduct of an opposing naval commander is the desired effect.

 

S/F

Pete

I've personally always thought of mines more as an area denial weapon than an actual combat effective weapon. You are eventually going to find the mines, either by visual, sonar or....the hard way. But now that you've found them you have to waste resources and time making sure you clear them all (or go around the mine field).

 

Historically in WWII, many submarines carried mines and would go plant them in enemy harbor channels reducing shipping movements and forcing the owning country to clear the harbor before resuming cargo operations. They were also used to prevent forces from landing on beaches. Or in the case of land mines to detour or impede movement.

 

Guess I've already answered my own questions huh?

 

Of course this still leaves the question of how to set up a minefield with the editor and at what depth the mines would be most realistic/effective? My assumption is periscope depth unless I am setting up an anti-sub field, but assumptions almost always prove wrong.

After reading Herman's comment, it immediately occurred to me: what would anyone do after finding a single mine ? Start looking around for more, right ? It only seems natural to me that once one mine is found, the others quickly follow.

You are right if a player can quickly identify a contact as a mine, but when a sub contact is first detected, it usually just shows up as unknown. The player cannot know if it is a mine or a sub.

Of course this still leaves the question of how to set up a minefield with the editor and at what depth the mines would be most realistic/effective?  My assumption is periscope depth unless I am setting up an anti-sub field, but assumptions almost always prove wrong.

I would disagree on the depth. At periscope, they might get spotted by radar and this wouldn't be realistic.

 

I know that in H3, subs at Deep depth cannot be detected by MAD. I don't know if this restriction applies to HCG or not. I'll be testing for it, soon. However, I think that it might be better to always move the mines to Deep depth in order ot make it more difficult for detection by player assets.

However, I think that it might be better to always move the mines to Deep depth in order ot make it more difficult for detection by player assets.

 

I definitely would NOT use a hard and fast rule of placing mines at Deep. The problem with it is that the best places for emplacing minefields are usually chokepoints (narrow or constricted waters) where Deep depth might not be available. So, how deep you place your mines always depends on exactly where you plan to put them. Here's a tip: Use two or more minefields in the same area, but place them at varying depths.