Stillwell Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 I am a China watcher and increasingly frustrated by the lack of PLAN platforms available in Harpoon 4.1 Now that Sea of Dragons is 11 years old, and given the dizzying pace of Chinese military modernization here's what I'd like to see added in the next edition (unless anyone here happens to already have the data): Submarines: Type 094 Jin Class Type 093 Shang Class Type 039A Yuan Class Type 039/G/G1 Song Class Surface Combatants: Type 051C Luzhou Class Type 052C Luyang-II Type 051B Luhai Class Type 053H1G Jianghu-V Class Type 053H2 Jianghu-III Class Amphibs: Type 071 Landing Platform Dock Type 072-II (Yuting Class) Large Landing Ship Type 072-III (Yuting-II Class) Large Landing Ship Aircraft: Su-30MKK J-10 (updated) KJ-2000 Y-8(J) Also, I'd like to see rules for Over the Horizon Radar (OTH) added as well as Anti-Ship Ballistic Missile or general Ballistic Missile rules. This will allow for some really good PLAN based scenarios and, IMHO basis for a new (post) Cold war "refreshing" of the game. Sorry, but those GIUK scenarios have gotten OLD. Thoughts? SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmaidhof Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Stillwell, I agree and for have quite some time maintained that Sea of Dragons is woefully in need of an update. That said, there are quite a few recently developed Chinese platforms found in Naval Sitreps and Harpoon Naval Review 2003. A quick look through my collection I found many of the surface ships, however not the version you list, like a Type 052B instead of your desired Type 052C. The is certainly a Su-30MKK, and I've gamed a J-10, just have not located the stats yet. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CV32 Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 ... I've gamed a J-10, just have not located the stats yet.Pete Ask and ye shall receive ... J-10 Fighter Man Rtng: 4.0/2.0 Damage Value: 21 Size/Signature: Small/Small Bombsight: Advanced Counterm: 3rd Gen D Inflight Refuel: Y Sensors: Possible Helmet-Mounted Sight. Radar unknown. Throttle Setting (Speed in knots) Altitude Cruise Full Mil Reheat Low: 490 650 792 Med: 490 690 1020 High: 490 740 1220 Ceiling: 18000 m Engine Type: TF Cruise Range: 600 nm Int Fuel: 4500 kg Drop Tank Desc. Fuel Wt. Range Add. 1500 L Drop Tank 1190 kg 155 nm 1100 L Drop Tank 873 kg 110 nm Ordnance Loadouts: Payload: 4500 kg Off Guns: 23mm (xxx) • Blue Sky FLIR/Laser targeting pod can be carried on inlet HP. • Six underwing and five underfuselage HP. Inner pair and C/L are wet. • Cleared for PL-8 (Python 3), PL-9, PL-10 radar AAM, and PL-12. • Cleared for rockets and unguided bombs only. • May receive laser-guided bombs, YJ-8K/C801 antiship msl Remarks: In Service: 2005 Multirole fighter in Mirage 2000 or F-16C/D class. Development started in 1988. Uses technology and design elements of Israeli Lavi fighter, also Russian engine and design assistance. Aerodynamically unstable, quad FBW control system. Two-seat J-10AS version will also be developed. • Aug 02: Six prototypes and ten preproduction examples in limited service in Nanjing Military Command, in eastern China, for operational test. • IOC is 13 Jul 04 with 131st Regiment of 44th Air Division. {added 4 Nov 03, rev 6 May 04 fm HNR '03, rev 18 Nov 07 w/info fm IAPR 22, rev 2 Dec 08, two a/c shown w/inflight reuel probe fitted} Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmaidhof Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 hehe, thanks. I have the J-10 info...just have not put my finger on it since reading the initial request. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CV32 Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 hehe, thanks. I have the J-10 info...just have not put my finger on it since reading the initial request. No problem. Its what we do around here, we anticipate your needs, even before you're convinced you really need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmaidhof Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 hehe, thanks. I have the J-10 info...just have not put my finger on it since reading the initial request. No problem. Its what we do around here, we anticipate your needs, even before you're convinced you really need it. Well then How about what Stillwell anticipates! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CV32 Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Well then How about what Stillwell anticipates! Higher echelon than me, I'm afraid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmaidhof Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 What I thought, but might not hurt to ring some more bells on high though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stillwell Posted January 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 ... I've gamed a J-10, just have not located the stats yet.Pete Ask and ye shall receive ... J-10 Fighter Man Rtng: 4.0/2.0 Damage Value: 21 Size/Signature: Small/Small Bombsight: Advanced Counterm: 3rd Gen D Inflight Refuel: Y Sensors: Possible Helmet-Mounted Sight. Radar unknown. Throttle Setting (Speed in knots) Altitude Cruise Full Mil Reheat Low: 490 650 792 Med: 490 690 1020 High: 490 740 1220 Ceiling: 18000 m Engine Type: TF Cruise Range: 600 nm Int Fuel: 4500 kg Drop Tank Desc. Fuel Wt. Range Add. 1500 L Drop Tank 1190 kg 155 nm 1100 L Drop Tank 873 kg 110 nm Ordnance Loadouts: Payload: 4500 kg Off Guns: 23mm (xxx) • Blue Sky FLIR/Laser targeting pod can be carried on inlet HP. • Six underwing and five underfuselage HP. Inner pair and C/L are wet. • Cleared for PL-8 (Python 3), PL-9, PL-10 radar AAM, and PL-12. • Cleared for rockets and unguided bombs only. • May receive laser-guided bombs, YJ-8K/C801 antiship msl Remarks: In Service: 2005 Multirole fighter in Mirage 2000 or F-16C/D class. Development started in 1988. Uses technology and design elements of Israeli Lavi fighter, also Russian engine and design assistance. Aerodynamically unstable, quad FBW control system. Two-seat J-10AS version will also be developed. • Aug 02: Six prototypes and ten preproduction examples in limited service in Nanjing Military Command, in eastern China, for operational test. • IOC is 13 Jul 04 with 131st Regiment of 44th Air Division. {added 4 Nov 03, rev 6 May 04 fm HNR '03, rev 18 Nov 07 w/info fm IAPR 22, rev 2 Dec 08, two a/c shown w/inflight reuel probe fitted} Thanks! I actually have HNR '03 but that J-10 data is missing radar.... I have not been able to find the other types anywhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stillwell Posted January 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Stillwell, I agree and for have quite some time maintained that Sea of Dragons is woefully in need of an update. That said, there are quite a few recently developed Chinese platforms found in Naval Sitreps and Harpoon Naval Review 2003. A quick look through my collection I found many of the surface ships, however not the version you list, like a Type 052B instead of your desired Type 052C. The is certainly a Su-30MKK, and I've gamed a J-10, just have not located the stats yet. Pete Where did you find the Su-30MKK data? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmaidhof Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Where did you find the Su-30MKK data? It is most definitely in one of the mid-20's Naval Sitrep. I had eyes on it yesterday and was about to type it in here when I was ordered off the computer by my 5 yr old. I'll re-post issue/page/data tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CV32 Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Not to jump the gun on Pete, but here's what I have ... Su-30MKK Flanker G Attack Man Rtng: 4.5/2.0 Damage Value: 36 Size/Signature: Large/Large Bombsight: Computing Counterm: 2nd Gen J&D Inflight Refuel: N Sensors: N-001VE Zhuk radar, RWR. IRST and laser rf linked to HMS Throttle Setting (Speed in knots) Altitude Cruise Full Mil Reheat Low: 530 600 725 Med: 530 680 936 High: 530 760 1147 Ceiling: 17300 meters Engine Type: TF Cruise Range: 1620 nm Int Fuel: 9400 kg Ordnance Loadouts: Payload: 8000 kg Off Guns: 1 GSh-301 30mm w/149 rds (3.5) • APK-9 pod, 2 Kh-59M [AS-18 Kazoo], 4 R-77 [AA-12 Adder], 4 R-73 [AA-11 Archer] • 4 R-73, 6 R-77 • 4 Kh-31A/P [AS-17 Krypton], 4 R-77 [AA-12 Adder], 4 R-73 [AA-11 Archer] • 6 Kh-29L/T or 6 KAB-500Kr/L, 2 R-77 [AA-12 Adder], 4 R-73 [AA-11 Archer] Remarks: In Service: 2000 Su-30MKK: Weapons include KAB-500Kr, R-77 [AA-12 Adder], Kh-31P [AS-17 Krypton], Kh-29T [AS-14 Kedge], Kh-59M [AS-18 Kazoo]. Can also use R-27 [Alamo] family. Su-30MKK-2: N-001M radar with SS mode. Su-30MKK-3: N-010M Zhuk-ME radar. Can carry Kh-31A (can launch two Kh-31A per phase, at different targets). • 2000-2001: 38 Su-30MKK delivered to PLAAF. • Jan 01: PGMs delivered. • 2002: First 100 of a planned 400 R-77 [AA-12 Adder] delivered. • 2002-03: 20 Su-30MKK-2 delivered to PLAAF. • 2003-04: 18 Su-30MKK-3 delivered to PLANAF. • 2005: Su-30MKK-2 to be fitted with Sapsan-E targeting pod (250 kg, laser designator, day only) enabling the use of Kh-29L [AS-14 Kedge] and KAB-500L. • Future upgrades: Su-30MKK and Su-30MKK-2 to be fitted with N-010M Zhuk-ME vice N-001. FLIR to be fitted to Sapson-E pod. Su-30MKK-3 might be fitted with one Moskit or three Yakhont missiles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmaidhof Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Belay my last... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stillwell Posted January 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 thanks! Where'd you get the Su-30MKK data? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmaidhof Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 thanks! Where'd you get the Su-30MKK data? Hi Stillwell, Brad's data appears to be what I have from Page 8, Issue #24 April 2003 of the Naval Sitrep. An article Chinese Flank Attack by Peter Grining. There are also stats for the alternative Chinese Flanker Radars in a sidebar. I am not 100% certain if these are "Smarter Radar" compliant as that listing came out the following Sitrep (#25 October 2003), however a cursory look at the N-001VE Zhuk from the Chinese Flanker article did completely match the stats for it in the Smarter Radar listing. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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