I was just playing a scenario where the red side was equipped with SA-5 SAMs. The SA-5 apparently detected the blue aircraft at medium altitude and at a fairly long range. The SAM fired. The missile was detected and the blue unit was ordered to a low altitude. At the range in question the blue unit should have broken radar lock as it was below the radar horizon. The missile should have failed to guide. In addition the SA-5 has a minimum altitude rating of medium so it should not follow the blue unit down to low altitude. Correct? However, it did and shot down one the blue unit aircraft. Are the altitude limitations working?

 

Steve M

The altitude limits are working but the code only links radar and SAM guidance in a rudimentary way.

 

You cannot break radar lock and cause a SAM to go ballistic by going below radar horizon. As long as you are still inside the altitude envelope of the missile (i.e. between its minimum and maximum altitudes), you can still be shot down.

Are the altitude limitations working?

 

Steve M

 

Hi

 

the altitude restriction is only a launch restriction....

As far as i remember...

" the altitude restriction is only a launch restriction....

As far as i remember..."

 

OK, As I understand it: If at any time an aircraft is detected within the altitude parameters of the SAM. the SAM will have lock on and the missile will track regardless of the target moving above or below the altitude parameter of the missile system.

 

I haven't noticed this yet, but if a SAM site or ship is hit by an ARM or destroyed while the missile is in flight does the missile self-destruct? I am referring to semi-active homing missiles. Air-to-air missiles (semi-active) do self-destruct if their launching plane is shot down.

 

Which leads to another matter: If 12 F-4s fire 12 Aim-7s (ie 1 each) and while the Aim-7s are in flight, 11 F-4s are shot down, shouldn't 11 of the Sparrows loose guidance?

 

 

Still having fun,

 

Steven

OK, As I understand it: If at any time an aircraft is detected within the altitude parameters of the SAM. the SAM will have lock on and the missile will track regardless of the target moving above or below the altitude parameter of the missile system.

 

Correct. The altitude parameters for SAMs are for weapon launch only.

 

I haven't noticed this yet, but if a SAM site or ship is hit by an ARM or destroyed while the missile is in flight does the missile self-destruct? I am referring to semi-active homing missiles. Air-to-air missiles (semi-active) do self-destruct if their launching plane is shot down.

 

Haven't confirmed it in a while, but I'm pretty sure that SARH guided naval SAMs do not self-destruct, nor do they go stupid if their launching ship has its radars knocked or gets itself sunk. HC was the first Harpoon version to fully emulate Cooperative Engagement Capability (CEC).

 

Which leads to another matter: If 12 F-4s fire 12 Aim-7s (ie 1 each) and while the Aim-7s are in flight, 11 F-4s are shot down, shouldn't 11 of the Sparrows loose guidance?

 

They don't lose guidance in HCE, as I guess you've noticed. Keep in mind that the 'link' between radars and radar guided weapons is modeled very loosely. Even on the anti-radar side, you'll also notice that shutting down the radars does not provide any protection against anti-radar weapons already in the air.

 

Still having fun,

 

Glad to hear it. If you keep in mind that the HCE code/model is overall a relatively simple one, and that its now a far sight better than it has ever been, you'll probably stay a happy Harpooner.

Brad wrote:

 

"If you keep in mind that the HCE code/model is overall a relatively simple one, and that its now a far sight better than it has ever been, you'll probably stay a happy Harpooner. "

 

 

I do sometimes forget the program was written almost 20 years ago. I do appreciate the effort and results that have gone into improving the the game. In that regard I'm a very happy Harpooner.

 

 

Just a thought, would there be an easy way to insert a sub-routine that would make the following check?

 

When missile reaches target if target is within altitude parameters of missile then calculate hit percentage as currently done.

 

If missile reaches target and target not within altitude parameters then missiles misses (ie 0% hit probability).

 

Is something like this done with ASW torpedoes or will they hit surfaced subs but not surface vessels? I think ASW torpedoes will hit subs that have surfaced. But I'm not sure.

 

See Happy Harpooner!

 

Steve M

Just a thought, would there be an easy way to insert a sub-routine that would make the following check? When missile reaches target if target is within altitude parameters of missile then calculate hit percentage as currently done. If missile reaches target and target not within altitude parameters then missiles misses (ie 0% hit probability).

 

I'm not the coder but I imagine it could be done. The problem, however, is that it introduces a way to readily defeat the AI. I would readily agree that if an aircraft dives below the SA-5's engagement envelope, it should properly and realistically survive. Until you also take note that changing altitude in HCE is as simple as a mouse click. Its just too easy to do right now.

 

We are (and have to be) very careful that by making changes and 'improvements' to the code, we don't inadvertently cause other problems/limitations with the game. HCE works, and works very well. We want to keep it that way. I'm not shutting the door on your suggestion, but just noting that there are many other considerations to be made.

 

Is something like this done with ASW torpedoes or will they hit surfaced subs but not surface vessels? I think ASW torpedoes will hit subs that have surfaced. But I'm not sure.

 

ASW torpedoes will attack surfaced submarines but they don't dive below their maximum operating depths. A submarine capable of Vdeep can therefore escape many earlier generation lightweight torpedoes.