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Posted

I would like to brainstorm with people about ways to improve the reception of the HUD-4 database. Maybe I am wrong about this, but my impression is that relatively few people are writing scenarios with the HUD-4 and relatively few people are using it to play.

 

I admit up front that this is personal. I like the HUD-4. I like what Gunny has done with it. I like writing scenarios with it. I want people to play those scenarios. Lots of them.

 

I'm not planning on spending too much time talking about "the competition," except to the extent that it is out there and a lot of people seem to be using it. I suspect the issue is not that they know or do not know about the controversy surrounding the database; I think they choose and use that database simply because it meets their needs.

 

So the question is what can be done to make the HUD-4 a better choice for people. I don't just mean improving the database--Gunny is already doing that. And not just adding new platforms. I am sure he is going through the database looking for errors, bugs, adding descriptive text for platforms where there is none (I think this is a big job that really has to get done as much as possible and as soon as possible), watching out for logical errors like a ship that can only use medium-sized helicopters that carry squads of marines only having a "magazine" for platoons of marines, etc.

 

Is it just a matter of writing more scenarios and posting them to as many Harpoon-related web sites as possible? Aside from Harpgamer and ScenShare, what are those sites? And what else can be done?

Posted
I would like to brainstorm with people about ways to improve the reception of the HUD-4 database.

 

Beside improving the database, you could consider making it work. I feel it would be a good first step. Re: where to post HUD4 scenarios, here (my personal Harpoon site), Files of ScenShare, SubSim, and SimHQ accept submissions from anyone. We are not competing with anyone, they only draw us as such :)

 

If you want a space on my site for your HUD4 scenarios just ask. You certainly were not banned for posting your HUD scenarios to FoSS, already.

Posted

Vince, there won't be much of your prattle tolerated. You may not be competing with anyone but you have been and continue to destroy what little Harpoon community there is left. Thanks to your gang's antics I have much less respect for sites like Subsim now that I know that they host copyrighted files without permission.

Posted
Beside improving the database, you could consider making it work. I feel it would be a good first step.

 

You know, that's not really a very helpful statement. Besides, the database does work. It works fine. There is a difference between an occasional bug or an occasional error and a database that crashes the game every time you try to use it. I've used the HUD-4 since it has come out and I really do not have many problems with it. Gunny is aware that there are some bugs, etc. and he is working to fix as many as he can as quickly as he can. So that's a non-issue. Not only is it a non-issue, it has very little to do with my original posting. This is not about the Players Database. I do not care about the Players Database. I care about bringing the HUD-4 to more people.

Posted
You know, that's not really a very helpful statement. Besides, the database does work. It works fine. There is a difference between an occasional bug or an occasional error and a database that crashes the game every time you try to use it.

You've just been show (quite graphically) how the HUD fails scenarios within 5 minutes of play. If this is acceptable to you, then fine. However, there are very good reasons why people are not playing those scenarios (something, correct me if I'm mistaken, you are wondering about). You've just been shown three. If you wish to ignore them, that is your prerogative.

 

I care about bringing the HUD-4 to more people.

So do I, if you have read my post.

 

My biggest objection to what Herman did was that he turned my scenarios into a platform for attacking the HUD-4.

Well, my feeling is that HUD4 did a better job at attacking itself than the Sparrows did against those T-34s :)

 

I was annoyed that he gave up and quit so easily

You were annoyed with someone who actually told you exactly what he would do in the previous video? And that he actually took the time and effort to load your scen, run it, and make a video for you? (and I won't mention the time I spent in checking both before putting them on the channel)

 

--perhaps this is not obvious to someone playing the scenario, but it really does not matter if you cannot hit the T-34s with Sparrows; there are plenty of other ways to kill them

True (even if a player should be aware of how the resources allowed are supposed to work), but it is still a bug somewhere in the scenario/DB coupling. A bug that can jump out again in a different occasion with even more unwelcome consequences. Personally I find bug chasing so time consuming that I'm always glad when someone lends an hand, but that's me.

 

My job, in real life, includes vetting scripts and texts so to ensure that they are of publishing-level quality (*). It is a long and hard job: sometimes I spend nights checking a script, literally, for bugs (AKA "plot holes"). And yet the hardest part is still when I point out the problems to the author. For some reason they always consider it a personal attack of sorts. It isn't. The truth is more simpler: either they hear about these problems from me (or another editor) or they will hear about them from

the public - usually with total silence.

 

There is no way around this. None. Not in writing and publishing, not in modding, and not in database/scenario creation. OTOH, there are billions of ways to explain "How something could have been if only... (insert evil entity here on whom put the blame)"

 

(*) This, BTW, allows me to know a couple of things more about copyright than those who liberally use words like "plagiarism" and "ownership" over the internet. I'm always amazed by the ignorance that surrounds these issues. You can see an example in this very thread:

 

Did anyone ever tell the Subsim owner, Neal Stevens, that he is "hosting copyrighted files without permission" and checked for his reaction?

 

Does anyone here even know that Neal and DonG spoke about this ages ago, and that this a non-issue since when Italy won her last World Cup?

 

Does anyone knows why?

 

I guessed so.

Posted

As I said, I'm trying to focus on what I consider the issue at hand. The Players Database is, for better or worse, out there. Many people are very happy with it. That's not the issue. Some people may think it's the issue, but it isn't. I just personally prefer the HUD-4 and I would like to see more people use it more often. As far as just making the database better--more accurate, fewer bugs, etc.--Gunny has taken on that job. Tony has made some suggestions about how the process might be improved and we have to see what Gunny says to that.

 

My question remains what can be done to get more people interested in the HUD-4, get them to write scenarios with it, etc.? I suspect that part of it is just writing more scenarios and posting AARs about them. The more that HUD-4 offers, not only for designers but players, too, the more people will use it. For my part, I enjoy writing scenarios with HUD-4 so I will keep doing that. I will post them here and anywhere else I think they will get good exposure.

 

I hope that other members of these forums will help out by writing more of their own HUD-4 scenarios. I think that is going to be a big part making HUD-4 better, better known, more commonly used, etc. It isn't going to work if I'm the only one writing scenarios for the HUD-4. We need more people to get involved at this end of it. If people are struggling for "plots," I'd be happy to throw out some ideas for other people to develop.

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