Kavik Kang

Let's try not to get too pessimistic. We have the data to determine target aspect (emitter and target altitudes, headings, range) so we can determine the target aspect from as seen from each emitter. Nor are we forever restricted to a single average value, in my previous post you hopefully got the idea that we can modify the database structure (we just prefer not to without good reason since it is a pain) to hold multiple reflectivity values for a particular sensor band. Well, of course it can be done, especially in a computer game. It just a lot of work for almost no gain in the end in terms of gameplay for the player. You could always calculate aspect ratios between targets, and use precise 3D models to determine the exact aspect ratio between targets... but that's a rediculous amount of work for something that rarely matters at the scale Harpoon is represented. Your post above would be a good comprimise, if this really is important for some reason I am missing, where you would assign 4 different values for top, bottom, front/back, and side. But even that probably isn't worth the effort. Just speaking entirely from a game design perspective, I'd put this way low on the list of things to do to the game. It really has almost no relevance at this scale and yet would be a very complex thing to add to the game. Since there are a few old SFB players here... It's the same thing as "3D SFB". It can be done... but why? It would add almost nothing to the game in the end, but would have an impact on almost every existing rule in the game. It's a more extreme example of "a ton of work for little gain". So I would only consider worrying about aspect ratios in Harpoon if there was a very simple way of achieving it within the code, because you don't get much "gameplay for the programming buck" by doing this. Personally, I'd rather see that time spent on a graphic layout of a carrier deck when you push the "ready air" button, or something like that which would be a far more noticable enhancement.

Haha, I was thinking the same thing reading this thread and then got your post at the end. What you guys are talking about is actually very complex, as CV32 said it is "target aspect". In simple terms this means "radar cross section relative to facing". Star Trek writers used the concept, there are a couple episodes where you will hear Picard order "present minimal aspect to target". The ship/plane is a lot easier to see from the top down than if it is coming right at you. This would be silly to attempt to represent this acurately within a game. You'd essentially have a different radar cross section depending on the facing of the unit. Harpoon does the only thing you really can do within a game, just pick an "average" value to represent this regardless of facing.

As in, perhaps, a combined Hydran/Federation assault on a Klingon starbase? Or just one Kzinti fleet:-)

I literally know SFB as well as anyone, "fighter sea" must have been a local phrase used by you group. But I can imagine what you are referring too. FED CV launches 12 F-15's, 12 F-15's each launch six drones... you now have 84 more individual units to keep track of! I don't think most people have a frame of referance to understand just how out-of-control SFB can get. In a big fleet battle like that it can wind up taking you 80 hours of play time to resolve what would be about 6 minutes of real-life action. As Maxwell Smart would say: "And loving it..." :-)

I should explain that I am not a typical gamer. I was a "hardcore" gamer before computer games even existed. I spent most of my life playing games that most people who claim to be "hardcore" gamers today would never consider playing because, well, they are just too "hardcore" for them. Star Fleet Battles and Advanced Squad Leader take just a little more effort and devotion to play than any computer game. But, after decades of this for the last few years I just avoid any games that will take a lot of work, effort, time, or record keeping. Something like having to manually rename a file and keep track of which one it currently is, is exactly the kind of thing I just don't do anymore. So I understand it isn't a huge issue, and I am not complaining. I, personally, have just "retired" from anything other than clicking an icon and playing the game. I think you need to play games for 35 years to truly understand what I mean, but there it is:-)

It is critical to match scenarios with the databases and battlesets that they use. Each scenario uploaded to HarpGamer should have the appropriate database listed on the same page where the scenario is posted for download. The available databases are likewise posted in the Downloads section of this website, appropriately enough called Databases. There are two files, one named the same as a stock file. So I would have to manually rename the original to play this scenario? Then remember to switch it back to play stock scenarios? And do this with tons of different combinations of scenarios and databases? ...I'll just stick with the stock scenarios:-) Harpoon is a great game, I'm not putting it down... But you need to clean that up. It's not that I don't understand what needs to be done, I've used computers since DOS 2.2 on a Franklin 1100... heck, I've even been the lead designer on a computer game for a major publisher. I'm just not willing to do all that for each user scenario I want to play. You REALLY need to clean that up so, at most, the player needs to put files into a single directory. You need to find some way of not having to manually back up and rename a file constantly to keep up with which scenario you are playing. I like Harpoon a lot, I used to be an SFB junkie so I like naval combat and this is one of the best naval combat games I know (Uncommon Valor is the only other naval computer game that compares too it). I still like Harpoon a lot, I'm just not even willing to go through all that at my age:-)

Are you running the correct version of the database? You need HCDB-110304 or later to run Antaeus. I just put the scenario files in the folder. Where would I get/switch databases?

That was a great guide, Victory. I had actually done exactly what you describe, and got like 20 errors on the way in, so I thought I had done something wrong. I had made a directory called Anteares, or whatever that scenario is called, and put all 3 files in that dir, in the HUCE dir. When I continue past the orders I get 15-20 error messages... but then it goes fine and everything seems to work. I tried again after reading your file and still get them. They are all a little different but generally say... "GetDiskAnnex Error: (Index 3219 [0xx93] & INDEX_MASK [0x7ff])[1171] > AnnexDiskRec Count[0]=1080. This message has been logged. The program will now terminate." That's the first one. I get a bunch more with different numbers, then the program doesn't terminate and the scenario starts. Am I doing something wrong?

Where do you put the files for user created scenarios? I downloaded the "Anteres" (Lybian scen, my brother was actually on the Kearsarge as an on-board engineer on an Osprey so I am interested in this scenario). I get three files ending in .SLo, .RDo, or something. There is no obvious place to put them, and no existing files with the same extensions to let me know where they belong. I can't find anything in the manual or on the forums about it either. Where do the files go?

A Warbird could never catch it, must have been a War Eagle. I'm guessing at least a few Harpoon players recognize where that comes from:-)

Ok, thanks. I was kind of suspecting that it might not be "real" within the game. I have the JSTARS half way to the second target in the save and nobody is shooting at it so just for fun I will try and directly overfly all three with the JSTARS and see if it makes it home:-)

I tried to play the scenario "Kodak Moment" from the 2003 IPOG set but I saved it and stopped because I don't understand how to fulfill the victory conditions. It says to do "photo recon" of three ground forces. You can see the 3 ground forces on the map like they are bases (they are there before you even put any planes up). But I don't see any way of doing "photo recon". I have 2 search planes, 2 kiowa helos that could never reach, and 2 JSTARS. None of them can target the ground forces to do any type of "photo recon" mission, and just flying the JSTARS directly over the ground locations had no effect. Is this just BS in the orders and there is no such thing as "photo recon" actually in the game? That wouldn't make a lot of sense since doing this "photo recon" is the victory condition. What plane do I use for "photo recon"? How do you order it to do "photo recon"? I can't play this scenario because there doesn't seem to be any way of doing what I've been told to do in any way that the game will recognize. I must be missing something...

Joe, Have you turned on the range circle for "active ground radar"? It will be a yellow circle. Turn that range circle on and look at your search plane. Is the base inside the yellow circle? In fact, I find that to get a really solid fix on all units of a base you need to be at 75-50% inside the yellow circle.

Joe, I have a lot of experience with games and gamers. I've been playing Harpoon again for the first time in like 20 years so I've been reading these forums. It sounds to me that you are sending the search planes out ahead of everything else, like they are SR-71's or something. You need to keep the search planes behind fighters. Especially considering that the AI is almost obsessed with going after your search planes. Without fighters protecting them, the search planes will get shot down. I also think the other poster suggesting that you be more patient was on to something. In the next scenario you play try this, and remember I have a LOT of experience with games and gamers... The next scenario you play forget about the mission objectives and time limit and just spend the first 3 full hours establishing air superiority. Even if it seems like all the enemy planes are dead, don't do anything for the first 3 hours that is not related to downing enemy planes. Don't launch any strike aircraft, only fighters and air search planes, and just ignore everything but enemy planes for the first 3 hours. Then continue that scenario as if you were just starting. I think doing that will teach you a lot, both the first 3 hours and how different everything is than it normally is for you after that 3 hours. I actually take advantage of the fact that the AI wants to get the search planes so badly. The EW plane serves a dual role in the air supremacy phase, it detects enemy units and draws their fighters too it like moths to a flame. So use that, position the search plane both where it will detect enemy units AND where you want their fighters to be drawn too. Have the search plane radars on, and the fighters that are protecting it radars should be OFF (that is important). Then defend that area well, because if you don't a fighter you don't see might appear and get the spy plane anyway (you can't win them all). Finally, when it comes to taking down SAM defenses, keep the phrase "peel the onion" in mind, that will help;-)