Howdy Howdy...

 

Call me the newbie from nowhere. Unable to get some of my wargaming friends into the paper/model Harpoon game about a decade ago, I'm forced to play (for my sadistical pleasure) the computer simulation of this game, which I kind of really enjoy (notice that I don't say totally). However, I'm stuck on quite a few things that get's me kind of annoyed - especially for the EC 2000/2003 battlesets.

 

I really can't dedicate a majority of my limited free time into researching if there might be a strategy/information guide (a bit more indepth that the one provided with the Gold edition) to understanding some of the mechanics on the game play.

 

Call this an introduction on my part to see if anyone is willing to explain to me (without going into the Harpoon database, since for some reason I can't seem to look into - and frankly don't want to be overwhelmed with the vast amount of information [at this moment - I am interested into looking at it] that I might find) what the basice Harpoon guide seems to be leaving out. Here's a simple question - when I'm looking at the EA-6B Prowler and it gives me the percentage for its ECM pods (note the plural) is this a reduction in missile accuracy and/or scanning range (and why do they have more than one - does each one help reduce one of the other enemy's attributes in detecting/hitting me)? Does it matter if I combine the plane with a strike unit or should I have it go ahead of the unjammed strike unit for its target?

 

Another thing I would like to ask is why does the computer do such a marvelous job at evading torpedoes (I will confess that I do see a much bigger difference from Classic '97 to the 2002 Gold edition, as in that they don't evade as easily from the older version), ships or subs, but I almost always get hit on the first torp from a computer fired torp (this I haven't seen a difference from in the two versions of the Harpoon I have)?

 

I've been wanting to analyze scenerios by using the editor, but I keep getting stumped on why I can set initial ship speeds when doing a scenerio from scratch (note: I haven't really read the scenerio editor guide, but I can't imagine why, from trial and error, it can't be easily done without delving into the onscreen manual to see what I'm really missing).

 

Call this the really lame newbie question - can you play the Harpoon Classic game against another human player?

 

Please feel some pity for the questioner.

Here's a simple question - when I'm looking at the EA-6B Prowler and it gives me the percentage for its ECM pods (note the plural) is this a reduction in missile accuracy and/or scanning range (and why do they have more than one - does each one help reduce one of the other enemy's attributes in detecting/hitting me)?  Does it matter if I combine the plane with a strike unit or should I have it go ahead of the unjammed strike unit for its target?

YES! Combining a Prowler with your strike aircraft makes a huge difference. Tony got the Area Jamming working so a Prowler is now able to hide aircraft in the vicinity. They don't even need to be travelling in the same group for this to happen. The Area ECM model is one of the HUGE new features that was added after HCGold was released. I don't know about the jamming / detection reduction percentage, or if one pod jams one radar system... All I know is that from playing the scenarios like MedWar, the damned AI bombers can be practically invisible until they are atop your CVBG when they are escorted by jammers.

 

Another thing I would like to ask is why does the computer do such a marvelous job at evading torpedoes (I will confess that I do see a much bigger difference from Classic '97 to the 2002 Gold edition, as in that they don't evade as easily from the older version), ships or subs, but I almost always get hit on the first torp from a computer fired torp (this I haven't seen a difference from in the two versions of the Harpoon I have)?

Are you firing your torpedoes from maximum range? That could explain why the AI evades them so readily. I can say that I have had the same experience. I rarely get hit by torpedoes.

 

I've been wanting to analyze scenerios by using the editor, but I keep getting stumped on why I can set initial ship speeds when doing a scenerio from scratch (note:  I haven't really read the scenerio editor guide, but I can't imagine why, from trial and error, it can't be easily done without delving into the onscreen manual to see what I'm really missing).

Well, try this.

 

1) Set up your group.

2) Plot a path for your group with (F3)

3) Edit the path by selecting [Previous Waypoint] until you come back to Waypoint Zero. This is the starting point.

4) Enter a speed command.

 

I think that this will set your initial speed.

 

Call this the really lame newbie question - can you play the Harpoon Classic game against another human player?

Sorry, pal. HC doesn't have a Multi-player feature.

     Please feel some pity for the questioner.

Pity?! Why? If you are already playing around with the scenario editor, I can't wait to play your first scenario!

Herman, thank you for responding!

 

Because of my '97 experience with Harpoon, I've never really found the necessity to add EA-6B/EF-111/(put Russian/Soviet/CIS counterpart here) on any missions because it never seemed to add the advantage I ever wanted in certain strike missions (where the ordinance had to be dropped within ADA missile range to certain targets or to reduce the detection range of fighter groups - which never seemed to get much more distance to certain targets with the added EW planes) - and its kind of carried over into the Gold edition, but I am trying to experiment (and I have noticed a nice reduction in place losses when not using AntiRadar/Sead planes first to knock out enemy scanning).

 

As for the initial speed of a group, I haven't tried the F3 key and will see if that might work (the quick key suggestion is different on the scenerio editor but I'll give it a try).

 

As for my experience with subs in the new Gold edition, I definitely envy you on not getting hit by the first enemy torp. I've tried maxing the subs speed away from the direction of the torp direction, I've tried cruising away from the direction, Creeping away, just creeping, etc (any combination that I could think of - changing depths constantly, using and not using active sonar) and I almost always get hit (the reason I'm being a bit critical about this is that when I send planes/helos after enemy subs, I'm spending a half hour of my time dropping torps onto these boys and watching the computer evade torp after torp (with the occasional hit, but still limping away), and I'm at the 0nm point [as this was really the only way to get a decent hit from '97] engaging the sub. Basically, if the situation is there and one of my subs detects another sub, I find the closest AntiSub Helo/Plane (which might be even a thousand nautical miles away) to deal with it - I haven't seen a great improvement in Sub to Sub combat over the previous version (granted, I'm probably not doing it right, but I have tried any method that can work). I will say that, yes, I've fired torps at their maximum range, but only when the enemy sub (or ship) is heading towards me (and going very fast) and I've seen the AI just cruise by my torp with no hit (i've tried firing off multiple torps at the same time or staggered) and usually it might work - on the other hand it annoys me when the AI just shoots one and it still comes and hits me (emulating the AI tactics when it works for it doesn't seem to work for me). I don't want to continuously type up all the methods I've used to help improve my sub tactics in Harpoon. Any suggestions (I have used combinations that include changing speed/depth and waiting for sub (and sometimes ships) to get within 2/3 or 1/2 or even 1/4 of the torp range (if the enemy sub is moving away from me, I don't find it advantageous to try and chase down the enemy sub- considering the Russian subs always move faster than yours) are a nice help.

 

Wow, that last paragraph was huge. Hope I'm not being too wishy-washy on my postings...

 

[note: I do have Harpoon 3, but the manual to that game is a bit huge, but I am going to try and read it one of these days.]

As for my experience with subs in the new Gold edition, I definitely envy you on not getting hit by the first enemy torp.  I've tried maxing the subs speed away from the direction of the torp direction, I've tried cruising away from the direction, Creeping away, just creeping, etc (any combination that I could think of - changing depths constantly, using and not using active sonar) and I almost always get hit (the reason I'm being a bit critical about this is that when I send planes/helos after enemy subs, I'm spending a half hour of my time dropping torps onto these boys and watching the computer evade torp after torp (with the occasional hit, but still limping away), and I'm at the 0nm point [as this was really the only way to get a decent hit from '97] engaging the sub.  Basically, if the situation is there and one of my subs detects another sub, I find the closest AntiSub Helo/Plane (which might be even a thousand nautical miles away) to deal with it - I haven't seen a great improvement in Sub to Sub combat over the previous version (granted, I'm probably not doing it right, but I have tried any method that can work).  I will say that, yes, I've fired torps at their maximum range, but only when the enemy sub (or ship) is heading towards me (and going very fast) and I've seen the AI just cruise by my torp with no hit (i've tried firing off multiple torps at the same time or staggered) and usually it might work - on the other hand it annoys me when the AI just shoots one and it still comes and hits me (emulating the AI tactics when it works for it doesn't seem to work for me).  I don't want to continuously type up all the methods I've used to help improve my sub tactics in Harpoon.  Any suggestions (I have used combinations that include changing speed/depth and waiting for sub (and sometimes ships) to get within 2/3 or 1/2 or even 1/4 of the torp range (if the enemy sub is moving away from me, I don't find it advantageous to try and chase down the enemy sub- considering the Russian subs always move faster than yours) are a nice help.

You have hit on lots of good evasion tactics. I agree, any target moving away from you is probably not going to get hit with a torpedo. My basic tactic is: Be somewhere else the second a torpedo is detected!

 

It nearly always works for me. I find that the AI also has a penchant for firing at maximum range. I can usually evade simply by going the other direction.

 

What you have described for your planes sounds like you are also firing torpedoes at maximum range. I wait until the ASW planes/helos are nearly on top of the target.

 

I can't say this for a certainty, but maybe the torps that you fire from ships/subs just don't have the needed detection range. I don't know the game mechanics and am only making a guess, here. If you fire a torp from 20nm and the sensor can only detect targets within, say 3nm, your target may be out of its detection radius when it arrives. Again, this is just a Wild-Assed Guess.

 

Another guess: Are you trying to avoid torpedoes fired at your groups? In the past, I have had escorts hit when they are in groups because when the group changes direction to avoid torpedoes, the escorts do not always move at their maximum speed. They might still be doing Sprint/Drift and this allows the torpedoes to catch them. When torpedoes are directed towards one of myt TFs, I often separate the ships under attack to be certain that they are running away at Flank speed.

 

Wow, that last paragraph was huge.  Hope I'm not being too wishy-washy on my postings...

Not at all, man. The HCG community and HG are really good at supporting new guys who want to start designing. Quite literally, the HG owners BUILT HCG so there is nothing they don't know about it. Just go ahead and toss up your questions and ideas. The HCG design pros are always helpful. Everyone loves to play new scenarios. HG, SZO, and FoSS are excellent places to showcase your work if you are willing to share.

 

[note:  I do have Harpoon 3, but the manual to that game is a bit huge, but I am going to try and read it one of these days.]

I own, play, and enjoy both games. Good for you! Both are worthy.