I've found a new problem in H3. It seems the radar horizon is not being enforced in the game. I created a test scenario between the LCF and a Perry in the H3DB...the LCF detected the Perry at 39 miles with radar! THis is a big problem because the radar horizon is only about 28 miles between large ships...these are small ships in the scenario. Thinking that it may be a db issue...I created a similar test scen using the DB2000...2 Perry class frigates....same result. Detection at about 40 miles on radar!!

 

I then created the same scenario using HC2005. You know what guys....detection at 21 nm...EXACTLY where it's supposed to be (Go Tony and Brad!!)

 

 

I know that there is a known bug in H3 with the visual horizon but I did not know the radar horizon was not working properly as well.

 

 

Anyone know if this is fixed in H3 version 3.7?

Okay, I've also tested for this phenomenon and can confirm many aspects of it. I also used the DB2k v6.5.26 for my testing.

 

Test #1: I had 2 frigates approach one another. The ship was detected at 44 miles and visually confirmed at 20 miles.

 

Test #2: I ran it with between a pair of 2 Bang Rachan MCM vessels. They have radar effective up to 50nm. I detected the opposing MCM at 25nm and visually confirmed it at 10nm.

 

Test #3: I commanded the MCM and had the FF approach me. My radar detected the FF at 35nm and visually confirmed her at 18nm.

 

Test #4: I commanded the FF and had the MCM come to me. My radar detected the MCM at 36nm and visually confirmed at 17nm.

 

I also did some testing with the HUD/H3DB.

 

Test #5: I used 2x FF 1052s. The frigate was not detected by radar until 20nm!

 

Test #6: 2 PG Flyvefisken used. Detection at 25nm by radar.

 

My conclusions:

 

It is possible to have an effect on the detection horizon. I don't know the min/max parameters, but it appears as though the X-section values (or other factors) exert an influence on the range of detection. This is apparent as the smaller vessels [MCM and PG] seem to be able to get closer before being detected. The strength of the radar and mast height may also play a factor. Although the detection range appears to be a bit high, I don't know if it would be correct to conclude, just yet, that this is a 'bug'.

 

Let me know if this helps.

 

Cheers,

Herman

Thanks for testing Herman! So it looks like the cross section formulas need to be altered somewhat in order to get accurate detection ranges. Test #1 sounds pretty bad...44 nm is way too high!

 

The question now is..how to alter the formulas. Also, by doing this all contacts in the game interface will now shop as small or very small.

 

I guess we'll have to think about this some more.

 

Thanks,

Fred

Just a suggestion, but I think that we might be in luck with the FF 1052s. Since they appear to behave as you would like to behave under radar detection, perhaps you could use their radar characteristics as the benchmark for small targets.

 

Regarding how the detections are reported in the game (either as small or VSmall), would you consider ignoring this aspect and focusing only on what the game actually does? i.e. If you want the radar horizon / detection radius to be 20nm, then it might not matter how the detection is reported. The important fact would be that the detection is only reported at 20nm. However, will this mess up aerial radar detection, too?

 

I am still not certain if the 20nm detection range for the 1052s is due to their radar cross-section or to the strength of their radar; probably a mixture of both but that's just a guess.

Guys,

 

I have some good news and bad news.

 

Good News: I know what causes the radar horizon problem

 

Bad News: No way to fix it (GE related)

 

The problem is air search radars. Whenever a ship has an air search radar attached to it (whether it has surface search capability or not) it detects surface targets! Using the radar horizon range of a low flying aircraft

 

In Herman's test. The reason the Knox class ships were getting detected at the right ranges is because they have no air search radars! The only radar with air tracking capability on the Knox is a fire control radar!

 

I'll have to think about this one. Possible kludge would be making all air search radars into fire control radars. But I don't know how this would affect gameplay.

Firstly, if you are certain of your results, allow me to post them to the Known Bug list.

 

Secondly, I don't know if it is a good idea to switch an entire DB to fix this problem. If this problem is so pervasive, it might get fixed soon in the 3.7 release. Then you'd have to go back and re-configure all the Radar systems.

 

I'd like to suggest that you treat this as the bug that it is. Is the situation whereby opposing ships detect one another via radar all that common? I don't think so. It seems a huge effort to work around a glitch. Perhaps you can just set the parameters up correctly and keep your fingers crossed that H3 will be able to catch up with your RCS values.

I am not so certain that the problem lies with the A/S radar.

 

Test #3: I commanded the MCM and had the FF approach me. My radar detected the FF at 35nm and visually confirmed her at 18nm.

 

I looked at the units involved in this test. The Bang Rachan only has S/S radar and was able to detect the FF at 35nm.

 

Also, I looked at the 1052 in both the DB2k and in H3DB and I think that they both have A/S capability that is not linked to an FCR. Because of this, according to your theory, they should have detected one another at long range and not the proper 20nm range. Sorry, but I think that your theory is incorrect.